Comments on: I Paid For This Chat Channel! http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/ Random Comments About Gaming And Tractors Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:52:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Sweetmeat http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5879 Sweetmeat Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:50:23 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5879 Halcyon: Good point about the deductions etc. I'm not an accountant or a lawyer either, but the internet is a fact of the future. Internet gaming will be too. My dad is 75 and he plays DiabloII with me every Monday night. These games will catch on with nearly everyone in one form or another, and at that point the revenue stream for RMT will be massive. The Congress will not ignore that money. That's where my argument is based. Following the money may not be possible, but following the items is very easy. Items will indisputably have a monetary value. Congress gets to make tax law. How that eventually shakes out is hard to say, but I don't expect anyone here to like it.<br> <br> Either the EULA is given force of law and RMT becomes an illegal thing ( much like the war on drugs ), or items will have real value and taxes will find their way in. You can't have it both ways with the kind of money that will be generated someday. I wonder if Biff will be willing to be Bubbas' bitch for 3 years in the slammer for that PHAT LOOT. Halcyon: Good point about the deductions etc. I’m not an accountant or a lawyer either, but the internet is a fact of the future. Internet gaming will be too. My dad is 75 and he plays DiabloII with me every Monday night. These games will catch on with nearly everyone in one form or another, and at that point the revenue stream for RMT will be massive. The Congress will not ignore that money. That’s where my argument is based. Following the money may not be possible, but following the items is very easy. Items will indisputably have a monetary value. Congress gets to make tax law. How that eventually shakes out is hard to say, but I don’t expect anyone here to like it.

Either the EULA is given force of law and RMT becomes an illegal thing ( much like the war on drugs ), or items will have real value and taxes will find their way in. You can’t have it both ways with the kind of money that will be generated someday. I wonder if Biff will be willing to be Bubbas’ bitch for 3 years in the slammer for that PHAT LOOT.

]]> By: Andrew Crystall http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5878 Andrew Crystall Fri, 08 Dec 2006 16:13:08 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5878 Jeff,<br> <br> Oh, I agree that you should design to minimise it. But when you completely eliminate the skill-based argument for it (Eve-Online), it still happens.<br> <br> The entire "illegal gambling" thing is... very specific to where live.<br> <br> The only mechanism I've ever seen which has actually succeeded in smashing the market cost of their game's currency (by a factor of fifteen) without causing in-game inflation was Eve's gametime codes, which can be resold for in-game cash.<br> <br> Then Eve goes ahead and causes in-game inflation anyway via market mechanics, but that's another rant. Jeff,

Oh, I agree that you should design to minimise it. But when you completely eliminate the skill-based argument for it (Eve-Online), it still happens.

The entire “illegal gambling” thing is… very specific to where live.

The only mechanism I’ve ever seen which has actually succeeded in smashing the market cost of their game’s currency (by a factor of fifteen) without causing in-game inflation was Eve’s gametime codes, which can be resold for in-game cash.

Then Eve goes ahead and causes in-game inflation anyway via market mechanics, but that’s another rant.

]]> By: slog http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5877 slog Fri, 08 Dec 2006 16:04:18 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5877 I agree Brask. It should be the companies that support the sales transactions. I agree Brask. It should be the companies that support the sales transactions.

]]> By: Brask Mumei http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5876 Brask Mumei Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:34:46 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5876 Of course, the anti-RMT people assure us that cashing out at the end of the grind is *not* the norm, but the exception.<br> <br> Asking the game developers to be responsible for taxes on RMT is like asking sporting teams to be responsible for taxes on bets made on said teams. Of course, the anti-RMT people assure us that cashing out at the end of the grind is *not* the norm, but the exception.

Asking the game developers to be responsible for taxes on RMT is like asking sporting teams to be responsible for taxes on bets made on said teams.

]]> By: slog http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5875 slog Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:18:53 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5875 yes, Jeff. that's exactly what they are. And just like at a Casino, if you cash out of a MMORPG you should be filling a tax form. yes, Jeff. that’s exactly what they are. And just like at a Casino, if you cash out of a MMORPG you should be filling a tax form.

]]> By: Jeff Freeman http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5874 Jeff Freeman Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:13:00 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5874 Andrew, if cashing out at the end of the grind is the norm, then wouldn't most MMO's just be elf-themed illegal online casinos? Andrew, if cashing out at the end of the grind is the norm, then wouldn’t most MMO’s just be elf-themed illegal online casinos?

]]> By: Andrew Crystall http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5873 Andrew Crystall Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:15:33 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5873 Sweetmeat, again, read the reasonable proposal that it be treated like a capital gain. You pay nothing, until you RMT. YOu then oay tax on the RMT value.<br> <br> The EULA standing of the RMT is quite irrelevant to the tax men.<br> <br> I also reject the notice that calling for witch hunts and using the typical politics of hysteria makes you "decent".<br> <br> <br> J... society is nothing more than a flow of memes through time and space. Any online space which allows interaction is by definition a society. Sweetmeat, again, read the reasonable proposal that it be treated like a capital gain. You pay nothing, until you RMT. YOu then oay tax on the RMT value.

The EULA standing of the RMT is quite irrelevant to the tax men.

I also reject the notice that calling for witch hunts and using the typical politics of hysteria makes you “decent”.

J… society is nothing more than a flow of memes through time and space. Any online space which allows interaction is by definition a society.

]]> By: J. http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5872 J. Fri, 08 Dec 2006 06:44:11 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5872 I reject the notion that MMOGs are societies by default or design.<br> <br> It is not a given. All you can do as a developer is lay the groundwork and work like hell to cultivate the world you want to have. Ultimately, what you create is a social playground that no one is obligated to live in. I reject the notion that MMOGs are societies by default or design.

It is not a given. All you can do as a developer is lay the groundwork and work like hell to cultivate the world you want to have. Ultimately, what you create is a social playground that no one is obligated to live in.

]]> By: Halcyon http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5871 Halcyon Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:23:51 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5871 "As soon as he trades it to another player though, according to the IRS he just transfered the equivelent of $100, and he\'e2\'80\'99s gonna pay his $24 to the IRS for it. "<br> <br> I'm not an accountant or anything, but aren't taxes based on the value you actually receive for something, and not on the theoretical market value that you could have received? Seems he'd only owe tax on the currency he got for the sale.<br> <br> Also, aren't taxes based on the net profit, not the gross sales? Deductions on raid mats, repair costs... not to mention that since some gear is considered a prerequisite for certain encounters, it could be written off as a business expense...<br> <br> This way madness lies, and even the IRS is going to recognize that the expense of tracking all these kinds of issues will a) kill the source of revenue, and b) cost them more in paperwork than they'll make in taxes. “As soon as he trades it to another player though, according to the IRS he just transfered the equivelent of $100, and he\’e2\’80\’99s gonna pay his $24 to the IRS for it. “

I’m not an accountant or anything, but aren’t taxes based on the value you actually receive for something, and not on the theoretical market value that you could have received? Seems he’d only owe tax on the currency he got for the sale.

Also, aren’t taxes based on the net profit, not the gross sales? Deductions on raid mats, repair costs… not to mention that since some gear is considered a prerequisite for certain encounters, it could be written off as a business expense…

This way madness lies, and even the IRS is going to recognize that the expense of tracking all these kinds of issues will a) kill the source of revenue, and b) cost them more in paperwork than they’ll make in taxes.

]]> By: Doki http://www.brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/comment-page-1/#comment-5870 Doki Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:33:01 +0000 http://brokentoys.org/2006/12/06/i-paid-for-this-chat-channel/#comment-5870 I don't have much of a problem with RMT as a concept, but in execution most of the RMT companies fail on many levels. Questionable practices for gathering currency and power leveling, and the outright lies they tell every customer about it. I've worked at an RMT company for a few weeks, and it was a real eye opener.<br> <br> Now, if the companies would handle the RMT themselves it would be a lot better in the long run. At least the transactions *should* be just as secure as the game accounting itself, and deliveries would always be expected in a reasonable time and manner since they wouldn't actually have to farm anything. I don’t have much of a problem with RMT as a concept, but in execution most of the RMT companies fail on many levels. Questionable practices for gathering currency and power leveling, and the outright lies they tell every customer about it. I’ve worked at an RMT company for a few weeks, and it was a real eye opener.

Now, if the companies would handle the RMT themselves it would be a lot better in the long run. At least the transactions *should* be just as secure as the game accounting itself, and deliveries would always be expected in a reasonable time and manner since they wouldn’t actually have to farm anything.

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