Do a simple test. Without me biasing it.

Take SOE and take Blizzard.

Take the perfect slot machines example.

What kind of implementation would you expect from SOE and what from Blizzard?

Yeah, I’d NEVER expect slot machines running through slash commands in WoW, while I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find that in a SOE game. In fact WoW pretty much demonstrated this with the polish they put in some of those silly holiday events.

You forgot the part of your test where you give SOE a couple eleventy kajillion dollars to make a fair comparison. But in any case, there is a mini-game inside EQ2 that’s very similar to a slot machine. It is graphical, and accessable via NPC chat. No arcane slash commands necessary.

My personal preference is for ten features well thought and well done than twenty half broken and obscure. Less but better instead of more but worse.

Game design on paper is fun.

WoW = EQ the superfluous

Take SOE and take Blizzard.

Take the perfect slot machines example.

What kind of implementation would you expect from SOE and what from Blizzard?

Yeah, I’d NEVER expect slot machines running through slash commands in WoW, while I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find that in a SOE game. In fact WoW pretty much demonstrated this with the polish they put in some of those silly holiday events.

My personal preference is for ten features well thought and well done than twenty half broken and obscure. Less but better instead of more but worse.

“Well thought and well presented” are superfluous details and luxuries. But they are basically the only reason that made WoW breach out of a niche cult.

WoW = EQ the superfluous

OK, then do it. Write interface art and UI code to make an option menu for the exp bar.

Oh wait, what? You can’t? Don’t have access to the game’s source code? Not an artist? Hm. Guess it does take some effort.

It was just a provocation. I actually thought that /autoloot came with a bunch of option -switches. Then I looked up at the Herald and it seems it was just /autoloot, I must have mistaken it with some other command. But at that point I decided to write down the rant anyway

That said, imho, things should never go in half-incomplete. That’s what WoW’s polish taught the market. Especially in MMOs, where features are released and then abandoned and never really polished up (wait another three years and if DAoC is still alive I bet the /autoloot will still be there as a slash command).

The /autoloot is exactly one good example of the difference between a game well planned and well polished, and one that instead tries to take the shortcut and doesn’t give importance to presentation and accessibility. It’s like “xp on/off”, in EQ2 you right click on the exp bar and select the option from a menu. I don’t think it took so much effort.

Imho it should have the priority over changing the fireball damage every other month.

Again, it’s important just because it’s a good example. Old patchwork school Vs new standards.

You know, if you take that point out there hasn’t been any step forward in the last years. Blizzard taught that what old school considered superfluous isn’t superfluous at all. So let’s give it some importance

As for the point about getting a UI programmer and artist involved, well, yes, Abalieno does have a point there. I usually call systems like that “Designer Specials”, because /doarcanecommandthingy is usually a sign that someone implemented a system *without* the help of artists and/or UI programmers. SWG’s slot machines, which completely run in ASCII text kicked out to the chat window, are another example of this. And frankly, this happens because the artists and programmers in question are busy working on other things. So your choice is to get the half-arsed Designer Special or not get anything at all. Life sucks when you make choices.

Luckily we’re seeing script-driven interfaces that allow teams to move interface design off the backs of the programmers, so there should be less Designer Specials going forward.

Why? Because it was Yet Another Dos Command Line thing. The kind of /slash commands that you know only if you read and bookmark patch notes.

First of all, this is true of anything implemented at all in an MMO. *Anything.* When I started playing EQ2 again I had to look at patch notes and community sites to figure out where the portals to the expansions I’d missed were. The very nature of MMO’s dictates that you either read the patch notes or have friends who can fill you in on what you need to know. MMO’s are not console games.

Secondly, Autoloot was so insanely popular that everyone knew about it within days of implementation. And since it was an optional mechanic, you didn’t *have* to know about it to still play the game.

What I expect? That if a programmer has a good idea he goes to discuss it with the team, so that it can be properly planned, scheduled and polished.

I can’t speak for Lum, but I’m willing to bet there was a lot of discussion on this before he up and did it. He also said he checked it into the version control whatchamacallit, so it’s not like he went out and threw a patch on the live servers.

For an /autoloot command this would mean taking the UI programmer and an artist to finally make it a feature to put in a context menu for the group window. So that players can see it’s there. Without being patch notes gurus. And you don’t fucking release it till it’s ready *and* presentable.

I like you Abalieno. I was sorry to see you quit writing because you bring a lot of good conversation to the table. But then you come up with shit like this, and I just have to wonder who’s driving. Autoloot was, as I’ve said, insanely popular amongst players. I daresay I don’t think I’ve run across a single player who thought it was a bad idea. It was pennies from heaven and you’re the only one in the room bitching that the pennies aren’t shiny enough.

Scott left a lot of the details out of that whole process, and you’re filling those empty spots in with wild conjecture and outright venom. Criticize Mythic all you want (I’ve done my share and it’s just too easy a target now) but at least come at it with an informed opinion.

Why? Because it was Yet Another Dos Command Line thing. The kind of /slash commands that you know only if you read and bookmark patch notes.

Now I know that it was all Lum doing it all by himself on extra time. Is this helping?

God no. The fact that a programmer has personal initiative over a game SHOCKS me. When I read about it I couldn’t believe it.

What I expect? That if a programmer has a good idea he goes to discuss it with the team, so that it can be properly planned, scheduled and polished. For an /autoloot command this would mean taking the UI programmer and an artist to finally make it a feature to put in a context menu for the group window. So that players can see it’s there. Without being patch notes gurus. And you don’t fucking release it till it’s ready *and* presentable.

Of course Lum can’t be blamed. What is wrong is that probably there wasn’t at Mythic that kind of environment for it to happen the right way.

When personal initiative trumps teamwork, especially in a MMO, things must be very wrong. It also gives hints about why DAoC’s development and planning always felt so inconstant and without a real direction.

This is a conversation you can’t really have in other industries.