Look For… The Union Pander…

Posted on August 8, 2007 by Scott Jennings| 22 Comments

More random thoughts on the Democratic shouting match tonight…

You know, a debate moderated by Jon Stewart would kick complete ass.

The candidates are ALL SHOUTING A LOT. I wonder if this is because the debate’s being held in the middle of a stadium. Well, except for Kucinich, who just likes shouting. And unions. Everyone likes unions, but Kucinich wants to have union babies. He really is playing on home field advantage tonight, going for wild applause lines. “I WILL ABOLISH NAFTA! I WILL END THE WAR! I WILL PROTECT JOBS! I WILL GIVE MEDICARE TO ALL! I WILL FEED THE HUNGRY! I WILL CLOTHE THE NEEDY! FEAR ME, BUT *FOLLOW*!”

Every time I see Chris Dodd, I think “why aren’t you Mike Gravel?” Because at this point Dodd really is Gravel, but without the endearing insanity. He seems to think his strategy to come from behind is to LOOK VERY ANGRY AND RANT AND POINT. As opposed to Bill Richardson, who is polling similarly dismally but is at least *amiable* about it.

Joe Biden needs to just answer all questions with monosyllables from now on. When actually speaking, he wildly alternates between brilliance and wackiness, often within the same sentence.  “Hey, he’s right… oh wait, he’s a jerk.” Maybe we can replace him with Neil Kinnock and see if anyone notices.

HILLARY. IS. VERY. ANGRY. AND. CLIPPED. I wonder how much of it is shouting into an ampitheatre, and how much of it is irritation that Barack Obama continues to exist. At one point you could see her just stare at Obama and try to force him down through PSIONIC WILL. She really came across as much shriller than she has in other debates.

Obama was statesmanlike as always. Even though I disagree with many of his positions, I think America needs a President like him. Just because he’s, you know, an adult and stuff. Yes, the bar’s low.

Edwards was shiny.

Funtax has more, similarly banal liveblogged observations. Because really, it’s too early to do anything else!

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  • Lacero

    I think Hilary is saving her Psionic Death Gaze for January, she might still win without it.

  • Richard Scott

    The DNC debates are really, really bad. There is no differentiation, except in the amount of pandering.

    It’ll be nice when the race moves down to 4 people. I think anyone polling within the margin of error for 0% should not be in these debates after August.

  • http://larpscribe.threadsnola.com Savagex

    Sadly, I think Biden is the best Democrat Candidate. Obama, Edwards, and Clinton are all showing that they are of a similar stripe to Bush and His Ilk (not quite getting it.) As it stands now, I think all of the candidates on both sides are lacking a lot of integrity and leadership skills and really don’t match what I am looking for in a leader.

  • http://blog.funtax.org funtax

    At this point, Clinton and Biden should be regarded as one candidate. The man seems to be dividing his time between tossing softballs for Hillary to knock out of the park and saying INSANELY TERRIBLE stuff to absorb any negative energy that approaches their position.

    I almost feel bad for Edwards, because his JOHN EDWARDS AAAAANGRY!!!! shtick just isn’t working and I’m not sure how much else he’s got in the tank if he can get people behind him emotionally.

    I hope Kucinich went home and had a BIG BOWL of ice cream with all the fixin’s because he is NEVER going to feel this good ever again.

    I am pleased to hear that Gravel has been willed back into the next debate by THE INTERNET.

  • TPRJones

    It’ll be nice when the race moves down to 4 people. I think anyone polling within the margin of error for 0% should not be in these debates after August.

    I’d like to see it done in a reality show format. After each debate the lowest poller isn’t invited back to the next one. Each time we lose one until we’re down to the final two.

  • Amaranthar

    While mayor of Cleveland, Kucinich was endearingly nicknamed “Dennis the Menace”.
    He was admired because he wouldn’t back down from any fight. Unfortunately, he found many, many fights in the political arena. If you believe it’s time for civil war, vote Kucinich.

  • http://www.cmdrslack.com CmdrSlack

    At this point, I’m just hoping that being the front-runner/popular comes back to fuck Hillary much like it did Dean in 2004. Not because I necessarily despise Hillary, but because I’m rooting for Obama and, well, he’s a much better person to step up to the plate when Hillary has a “beyarrrrrrgghhhhhhhhH!!!!” moment on the campaign trail.

    He’s my senator, so maybe I’m a bit biased. I think he’s promising something different…or at least less the same. I’d love to pull for the guys like Kucinich and Gravel, but they’re currently less electable than a black man with limited executive experience or a woman with a dynasty issue.

  • yunk

    I’d like to see it done in a reality show format. After each debate the lowest poller isn’t invited back to the next one. Each time we lose one until we’re down to the final two.

    They should have a physical challenge too. Of course then Hillary would definitely win as she kicks their asses.

  • Nicademus

    I’d like to see an Edwards presidency just to have some cabinet level officials who are willing to smack the crap out of importers over product safety. Hillary is a tool of the lobbyists, I’m a dem but I really don’t think Bill’s crew needs ANOTHER four years thanks. Obama is just a shape shifter, the more you want him the more you realize he won’t say anything about his real intentions until he’s in office.

    Personally I’ll vote for the first guy (hillary sure isn’t going to do it) who comes out completely against warrantless wiretapping and all the other unitary executive crap.

    Thank God the GOP’s field of candidates is worse. It’s really my only solace right now.

  • blachawk

    I really hope Clinton does dismally. She sets the standard for politician phoniness. Bill was at least genuine in his intentions, Hillary will say or do anything that she thinks will get her more votes. If anyone is really interested, I could give 100 examples (no exaggeration). The biggest is her complete reversal on her Iraq stance and her lame attempt to spin the obvious conclusion that her only real convictions are doing whatever the polls say will get her the votes. I sincerely hope Democrats will see her for what she is.

    Obama is a complete idiot on foreign policy (Since we’re having so much trouble in Iraq, lets invade Pakistan!), but I would much rather have a well-meaning idiot than a power-hungry, military-hating, grating-voice-having liar.

    I’m not too worried about it though. Fred Thompson will sweep the Republicans off their feet, and America will choose him over Obama or Hillary.

  • Dr

    I pray blachawk is right. If the shrew wins, we can look forward to big steps towards socialism in the U.S. And we all know how well that works…

  • Ironwood

    I don’t. How well does that work ?

  • angry.bob

    “I don’t. How well does that work ?”

    You’re such a liar.

    According to any verifiable, real-world metric it works considerably better than the system we’ve got here. On the order of about 150% better. I now eagerly await the very convincing statements that the Health care, education, and social safety systems in the United States are second to none. Which is true. We’re more like 20-somethingth to none compared to the rest of the industrialized world. Which are all pretty much Socialist as far as those three areas go.

    American Capitalism is as complete and utter a failure and morally bankrupt as Soviet Communism was, and much more harmful overall to the world community.

  • blachawk

    Ooohhh Kay then!

  • yunk

    “On the order of about 150% better”
    If that means the number of poor people that get killed or starve then I agree.

  • http://www.zenofdesign.com Damion Schubert

    I truly never thought I’d type this sentence, but I hope to god Al Gore runs.

  • Jadawin

    We’ll see how awesome the rest of the world’s health care is when they are no longer able to get a free ride off of America’s R&D.

  • Viz

    bob, you got stomped the last time you argued with the libertarians. It’s not going to be different this time around.

  • Angry.Bob

    I didn’t get stomped last time, and I didn’t get stomped this time either. It’s called recognizing when other people have nothing useful to contribute to a discussion and will not change their mind no matter how much indisputable evidence or hard, cold facts are presented that prove them wrong. Nobody’s provided anything but a glib “America is the best” one liner. Frankly, all but a couple people here think they’re way smarted and better informed than they actually are.

    All those poor people starving to death and dying in countries with socialized medicine, education, and/or liberal social safety nets? Where are they? What countries? I’m waiting.

    The rest of the world riding America’s R&D coat tails? Please. The US hasn’t led the world in medical research for at least 5 years. Europe is the place to be now. America leads in nothing anymore. We’re second rate when we’re lucky, but increasingly falling into third. We’re great at dumping our paychecks into shit we don’t need, but not much else.

    And please, none of you bitches are really Libertarians. You can claim to be whatever you want, but the stench of a Dittohead doesn’t wash off that easily.

  • blachawk

    “It’s called recognizing when other people have nothing useful to contribute to a discussion and will not change their mind no matter how much indisputable evidence or hard, cold facts are presented that prove them wrong.”

    You’re right Bob, that’s exactly why no one really responded to your little rant up there. No one is going to change your mind. You seem to be very emotionally invested in your beliefs that America is going to hell in a handbasket. Aside from a couple one-liners, I don’t think anyone else thought it was worth the time to respond to you. Hell, even your handle discourages response.

    We think we are smarter than we are, and we are denying the cold, hard facts that prove America is a complete failure? What cold, hard evidence have you cited? Which cold, hard facts have we missed? What cold, hard, real-world metric have to found that is able to easily quantify (150%?) an almost-unquantifiable (effectiveness of national health care).

    This argument all boils down to whether you think health care beyond emergency care is a human right. I don’t think it is. Everyone wants something for nothing, but social medicine is not cost-free by a long shot. I think Angry.Bob will be a whole lot angrier when his income tax rate goes to 60% to help pay for Willy the 90-year-old ex-janitor’s cancer treatment that will help him collect ten more years of social security.

    One thing I’ve always found amusing is that many people in countries with socialized medicine will go to private hospitals and pay through the nose. Why would they do that? Another thing I find amusing is that the people screaming for the government to take over health care usually tend to be the ones most outraged that the military, a government organization, spent XXX amount on a toilet seat that should cost YYY.

    As for calling all of us ‘bitches’ because we don’t share your naive opinions… I’ll just let your statement speak for itself.

  • Viz

    bob, you got stomped last time when you asserted that nobody but Bush has ever seized property without prior judicial review in wartime. That was demonstrably false, and at least three people pointed out that presidents have been doing that since at least Abraham Lincoln.

    Aside from that, you seem to like the “socialist” label, but it’s unclear what kind of socialist you are. From the way you talk and the “criticisms” of America that you make, it seems to me that you aren’t really any one KIND of socialist; you just think that if America is doing it must be wrong. Last time you argued against “the government” restricting any freedoms for security reasons (which I would call anarcho-socialist if it’s socialist at all, because if the government won’t restrict freedoms to protect the lives of its people then it ought not to restrict freedoms under any situations whatsoever) but this time you’re arguing that the government should use the nation’s resources to ensure that people all have “social safety” (which is a paternalist conception of government). This latter conception of government well-precedes Marxism and therefore socialism.

    But these conceptions are not really compatible with each other. If you put welfare-state minimization of risk attached to “suboptimal” social behavior together with anarchist-style freedom, you’ll end up with a populace that’s increasingly lazy and irresponsible up until the point where the whole system can’t obtain the resources it needs and collapses.

    All this is not to say that there isn’t something seriously wrong with the US health care system; but what’s wrong with it sure isn’t capitalism. I don’t understand why certain people in the US are so desperate to get on a single-payer healthcare system even as the Europeans are moving to dump theirs.

  • Viz

    By the way, bob, you say:

    “The rest of the world riding America’s R&D coat tails? Please. The US hasn’t led the world in medical research for at least 5 years. Europe is the place to be now.”

    but:

    “Basic research in the life sciences in Europe has not received nearly the same national or federal support as in the United States during recent years. Based on contributions per capita, research support in Europe is roughly 10% of that in the United States,1 even though the proportion of scientists in the population is similar on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.”

    http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/11/1394