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	<title>Comments on: Yes, But They&#039;re Still Farming</title>
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	<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Gaming And Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11471</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11471</guid>
		<description>More off topic about farm subsidies, or is the talk about farming in game off-topic?  :)

Our System at Work (tm)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-11-05-farmbill_N.htm

&quot;When the bill that would extend farm subsidies for five years goes to the Senate floor this week, eight senators will have special reason to pay close attention: They or their relatives collected about $3 million in federal payments from 1995 to 2005, according to government records compiled by a non-partisan environmental group.&quot;

that gives me almost as good a feeling as our upcoming 2% raise in taxes, both sales and property, in Chicago so that we can support Tod Stroger&#039;s extended family and various mobsters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More off topic about farm subsidies, or is the talk about farming in game off-topic?  <img src='http://www.brokentoys.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Our System at Work &#8482;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-11-05-farmbill_N.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-11-05-farmbill_N.htm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;When the bill that would extend farm subsidies for five years goes to the Senate floor this week, eight senators will have special reason to pay close attention: They or their relatives collected about $3 million in federal payments from 1995 to 2005, according to government records compiled by a non-partisan environmental group.&#8221;</p>
<p>that gives me almost as good a feeling as our upcoming 2% raise in taxes, both sales and property, in Chicago so that we can support Tod Stroger&#8217;s extended family and various mobsters.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11464</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11464</guid>
		<description>&quot;Sadly, there does not seem to be a money sink deep enough to prevent gold farming and its attendant inflation.&quot;

Surely it&#039;s the other way round - the need for money by average or casual players is increased by these money sinks, resulting in more demand for farmed gold?

The only way to prevent farming is for the act of farming itself to have diminishing returns. It&#039;s quite difficult to do that, although perhaps some system simlar to rest XP would increase the number of characters/accounts a farmer would need and therefore make it uneconomic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sadly, there does not seem to be a money sink deep enough to prevent gold farming and its attendant inflation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Surely it&#8217;s the other way round &#8211; the need for money by average or casual players is increased by these money sinks, resulting in more demand for farmed gold?</p>
<p>The only way to prevent farming is for the act of farming itself to have diminishing returns. It&#8217;s quite difficult to do that, although perhaps some system simlar to rest XP would increase the number of characters/accounts a farmer would need and therefore make it uneconomic.</p>
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		<title>By: wowpanda</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11465</link>
		<dc:creator>wowpanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11465</guid>
		<description>Well, E is right to the point.  Even if there is inflation, the regular players can still sell their drops on AH for a better prices.

Also farming helps us causal botters.  I don&#039;t buy gold, I just bot from time to time (it is fun to develop your own bot too), and the items sells good on AH as well.  Without farmers, it could take me half an year to get my mount (I did some calculation, where I could farm about 10g/hour with a bot, even I play myself I could only do about 15g.  But if I sell them on AH then that is totally different story depends on your drops).

The stable income Blizz got is from us working class adults, who have to work, have to take care of wife, kids, which leaves most of us about 1 hour each day to play and some more on the weekends.   The farmer&#039;s influx of cash is greatly needed for us to get mounts etc.  The rest good gear can be done by having fun with friends in dungeons.

Also I think Blizz should make more easier dungeons, the hard ones require too much time and too much stress.  Dungeons require 30 minutes to complete will be the best, too much trash mobs just give us headaches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, E is right to the point.  Even if there is inflation, the regular players can still sell their drops on AH for a better prices.</p>
<p>Also farming helps us causal botters.  I don&#8217;t buy gold, I just bot from time to time (it is fun to develop your own bot too), and the items sells good on AH as well.  Without farmers, it could take me half an year to get my mount (I did some calculation, where I could farm about 10g/hour with a bot, even I play myself I could only do about 15g.  But if I sell them on AH then that is totally different story depends on your drops).</p>
<p>The stable income Blizz got is from us working class adults, who have to work, have to take care of wife, kids, which leaves most of us about 1 hour each day to play and some more on the weekends.   The farmer&#8217;s influx of cash is greatly needed for us to get mounts etc.  The rest good gear can be done by having fun with friends in dungeons.</p>
<p>Also I think Blizz should make more easier dungeons, the hard ones require too much time and too much stress.  Dungeons require 30 minutes to complete will be the best, too much trash mobs just give us headaches.</p>
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		<title>By: Skean</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11467</link>
		<dc:creator>Skean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11467</guid>
		<description>A lot of days I wish I was farming instead of being a systems analyst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of days I wish I was farming instead of being a systems analyst.</p>
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		<title>By: =j</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11466</link>
		<dc:creator>=j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11466</guid>
		<description>Personally, I don&#039;t mind the money source / money sink model.  I just don&#039;t have an interest in playing an accurate economic model.  Economies have winners and losers.  I don&#039;t want to pay $15/mo to be a loser.

That said, WoW has some of the better money sinks of the games I have played.  Mounts, Repairs, Pots, Training, Respecs, etc.  Admittedly some scale better than others.  Sadly, there does not seem to be a money sink deep enough to prevent gold farming and its attendant inflation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t mind the money source / money sink model.  I just don&#8217;t have an interest in playing an accurate economic model.  Economies have winners and losers.  I don&#8217;t want to pay $15/mo to be a loser.</p>
<p>That said, WoW has some of the better money sinks of the games I have played.  Mounts, Repairs, Pots, Training, Respecs, etc.  Admittedly some scale better than others.  Sadly, there does not seem to be a money sink deep enough to prevent gold farming and its attendant inflation.</p>
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		<title>By: e</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11468</link>
		<dc:creator>e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11468</guid>
		<description>DJ Larkin,
I&#039;m sorry if I didn&#039;t make clear that my argument is general and not game-specific. I think you&#039;re right about inflation but I think it&#039;s wrong to blame gold-farming for the earnings-ratio being too low/rigid. This is due to the design of the game. If a player gets gold coins from slaying monsters, it&#039;s like printing money and if there is no drainage, inflation results. SL seem to have tackled the problem by not having any set earnings-ratios and by keeping control of money supply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DJ Larkin,<br />
I&#8217;m sorry if I didn&#8217;t make clear that my argument is general and not game-specific. I think you&#8217;re right about inflation but I think it&#8217;s wrong to blame gold-farming for the earnings-ratio being too low/rigid. This is due to the design of the game. If a player gets gold coins from slaying monsters, it&#8217;s like printing money and if there is no drainage, inflation results. SL seem to have tackled the problem by not having any set earnings-ratios and by keeping control of money supply.</p>
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		<title>By: Noel</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11493</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11493</guid>
		<description>And yet still, 9.2% of the US&#039; annual exports are agricultural!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet still, 9.2% of the US&#8217; annual exports are agricultural!</p>
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		<title>By: DJ Larkin</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11492</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Larkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11492</guid>
		<description>e: &quot;What’s so wrong about gold-farming anyway?&quot;

It rapidly devalues the currency of the game by flooding the market with gold. Since there&#039;s an excess of gold, the median price for any particular item vastly inflates. Because a player who is not buying gold is still getting the same gold earnings ratio for their playtime, their income is static. However, they&#039;re now paying more and more for the same goods they payed for a day/month/year ago (if they can purchase them at all). This puts price points on gear well outside the reach of any sort of casual player, creating a massive barrier between the hardcore and casual. Thus, the casual player can buy gold, play more to earn more gold, live without the gear that the game is designed to funnel down to them or quit. None of those are desirable choices to present to casual gamers, who are the meat and bones of the MMO market.

More on topic, how come nobody mentions California rice subsidy? They not only take money, but California farm water subsidy, which is HUGE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>e: &#8220;What’s so wrong about gold-farming anyway?&#8221;</p>
<p>It rapidly devalues the currency of the game by flooding the market with gold. Since there&#8217;s an excess of gold, the median price for any particular item vastly inflates. Because a player who is not buying gold is still getting the same gold earnings ratio for their playtime, their income is static. However, they&#8217;re now paying more and more for the same goods they payed for a day/month/year ago (if they can purchase them at all). This puts price points on gear well outside the reach of any sort of casual player, creating a massive barrier between the hardcore and casual. Thus, the casual player can buy gold, play more to earn more gold, live without the gear that the game is designed to funnel down to them or quit. None of those are desirable choices to present to casual gamers, who are the meat and bones of the MMO market.</p>
<p>More on topic, how come nobody mentions California rice subsidy? They not only take money, but California farm water subsidy, which is HUGE.</p>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11491</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11491</guid>
		<description>Farm corn to crush?

Only newbs pk. I crush in ATITD! the HARDCORE pvp game!

This is kinda interesting:
http://www.cfr.org/publication/13147/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farm corn to crush?</p>
<p>Only newbs pk. I crush in ATITD! the HARDCORE pvp game!</p>
<p>This is kinda interesting:<br />
<a href="http://www.cfr.org/publication/13147/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cfr.org/publication/13147/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Neep</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-11490</link>
		<dc:creator>Neep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/28/yes-but-theyre-still-farming/#comment-11490</guid>
		<description>-------------------------------------------------------
      &quot;e&quot; Said: &quot;...stuff...&quot;
-------------------------------------------------------

Yes, but what does that have to do with farming subsidies?


I Farm corn to crush?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
      &#8220;e&#8221; Said: &#8220;&#8230;stuff&#8230;&#8221;<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Yes, but what does that have to do with farming subsidies?</p>
<p>I Farm corn to crush?</p>
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