As Political A Post As You Are Likely To See

I am a conservative and I will be voting for Barack Obama. Here’s why (sanitized behind a cut-line so as not to get in the way of your zombies and warhammer posts!):

Foreign Policy: I admit it – I’m a foreign policy wonk and history nutter. I have a bit more of an interest in such things than most, which does shade how I view the various candidates, and also means I have a bit more authority (even if self-granted) to comment on this than other issues.

John McCain would, at first blush, appear to have the more serious foreign policy credentials. However, almost every statement he has made on foreign policy issues has been reckless and, well, ignorant. His constant attacks on Barack Obama’s willing to “meet with dictators without preconditions” is silly. Of course one would hope America deals with our enemies using diplomacy.  That is, after all, how countries interact. It does not mean going off to Teheran hat in hand hoping for a “peace in our time” speech (and it wasn’t what Obama meant when he gave the quote that McCain has been hammering on since), but it does mean challenging those who oppose American interests with every tool in the US arsenal, not simply that of the gun.

And speaking of the gun, America has been far too inclined to use it this past decade. Whether or not the invasion of Iraq was justified (I don’t believe it was; neither does Obama), the fact remains that the war being fought there now is *not* a “war on terror” or a “war on al’Qaeda” (nor was it when we invaded, something Republicans consistently conflate), but a civil war between ethnic groups within Iraq. This is not a war American lives should be be shed for, and our troops must be withdrawn with all due possible haste. Obama has promised to do this, and McCain has mocked those (including the bipartisan Iraq Study Group) which insisted on this, calling them “defeatists” and accused them of demanding America’s “surrender”. Yet given the overstretch our military is suffering, keeping our military engaged in Iraq, in a war we have zero vital interests in other than national ego, those who insist on our remaining in Iraq do America harm. On this issue alone, a vote for Obama over McCain is a necessity.

On other issues, both candidates tend to agree: a stronger intervention in Afghanistan (whose rehabilitation is in America’s interests), challenging Iran and using American influence to halt its nuclear weapons development, and a careful eye on Pakistan and Russia. It does bear noting that an Obama presidency would find it far easier to achieve these goals, simply because the Bush administration has burned so many bridges among our putative allies in blind pursuit of unilateral goals. McCain, by contrast, seems willing to continue this pattern (most notably more willing to insult Spain, a NATO member state and key ally, rather than admit he had confused President Zapatero of Spain with President Calderon of Mexico during an interview).

Given Obama’s thin resume, It was his job this campaign to convince the voters that he is capable of handling America’s foreign policy requirements; he has done so admirably.

The Economy: We are in the early stages of a recession. Arguing over whether it is due to Republican deregulation or Democratic mortgage law manipulation is a sideshow at this point; the clear duty of the next President will be to propose budgets that have some hope of minimizing the damage. Paradoxically for those of us who have lived through the 1970s and 1980s, the Democrats are now the party of fiscal responsibility, while the Republicans, in their last decade of power, have shown a complete inability to control spending, while enacting fiscally irresponsible tax cuts aimed at the wealthy top 1% or less of society.

McCain has recently hammered Obama as something of a socialist (ironic given the Bush adminstration’s effective nationalization of the mortgage and banking industries) for advocating “redistribution of wealth”. This is specious. Taxation by its nature is redistributive; any alternatives (such as flat tax or sales VAT schemes) would unfairly burden precisely the segment of society that can least afford it. The argument is not over whether taxation itself is welcome; John McCain is far from a libertarian, and his attempting to make that argument is absurd. The argument is simply over how that burden will be distributed – in effect whether the tax burden will be redistributed to the wealthy or the poor. Most fair people, regardless of their political leaning, would argue the former. This is why we have a progressive tax system, after all.

The problem then is not the nature of taxation, but its application or lack thereof. P J O’Rourke, in one of his breezy travelogue/political diatribes, looked at the essentially libertarian government of Hong Kong (pre-Chinese takeover) and noted that for government to truly get itself out of the way actually requires a lot of effort. For government to be invisible, it must be effective – and that requires funding. By contrast, the Federal government this past decade has been anything but. FEMA’s fumbling response to Katrina should be uppermost in everyone’s minds, but that is not the only example – our highway system is collapsing (sometimes literally), and our health care system is in a state of siege. The few things our government SHOULD be involving itself in, it is failing at. Some of this is a failure of leadership and priority, but much of this is also due to a simple lack of funding. Before all else, our government must simply do its job, and part of that is in enacting budgets that are balanced and realistic. A balanced budget will also help shore up our collapsed currency, and restore some confidence to the global economy.

Again, Obama is the more serious candidate here. Neither Obama nor McCain have promised balanced budgets (which is probably for the best given a recessionary economy) but Obama’s proposals are better thought out than McCain’s, who relies on railing against congressional earmarks, which while good theatre are a small fraction of the Federal budget.

This is not to say that there are not many issues that I disagree with Obama on in terms of economic policy. Simply put, I am a fiscal conservative and Obama is a classical liberal. Yet, ironically, he still is the more attractive choice for fiscal conservatives, if for no other reason then because he is the one candidate apparently capable of using a calculator, which says more to the bankruptcy of Republican thought than anything else.

Culture, Palin, and thought: The last point is something that the Republican party has to face if it will survive the next decade: among many other ill-concieved decisions, in embracing Sarah Palin and the social conservatism that she represents, the Republican party has made itself the standard bearer for anti-intellectualism.

Sarah Palin, as best as anyone can tell, has no opinions. On anything. In her few unscripted interviews, she has been unable to answer such simple questions as what newspaper she reads in the morning. Her one policy speech has been to support care for disabled children, which while certainly something that we should do as a society as a general rule, is to put it mildly not chief among the issues facing us as a nation. Yet Palin’s, and McCain’s response to the very simple questions raised by Palin’s lack of intellectual curiosity is to attack those who ask the questions, and moreover, to attack the very question itself. “Joe Sixpack” or “Joe the Plumber” wouldn’t ask if Sarah Palin has a foreign policy beyond a woolly grasp of geography.

Instead they would go to political gatherings strongly, horribly reminiscent of Nazi Germany’s Nuremburg rallies to rail at their enemies for being terrorists and socialists and Arabs and the other. Literally. Raising the Republican bogeymen, much as Jews were for the Nazis – no actual meaning, simply the other to scare the faithful with in lieu of an actual reasonable dialogue. This is not merely troubling. It is deeply frightening for anyone with a sense of history, and the Republican campaign has been extremely irresponsible in its prosceution of the campaign and its consequent corrosion of the national dialogue. I disagree with many people politically – this does not mean they are Insert-scary-meaningless-word-here.

This is not occurring in a vacuum. It is part of a pattern shown by today’s Republican leaders and the current Administration – a lack of respect for dissent, an all too easy appeal to fear and the other – sadly made all too easy, and all too quickly exploited, by the 9/11 attacks. If you ask many people today if Saddam Hussein bore responsibility for 9/11, many would say yes. Our government, in this as in so many other ways, has simply failed us. It has devolved to primitive threats of fear and anti-intellectual rejection of reason, something cheered on by the shock-talk conservative partisan media. And we see its application in the McCain campaign and its apparent existence in a strange time continuum where William Ayers is responsible for the stock market collapse and Barack Obama is an Arab terrorist.

This must be confronted. It must be rejected. We as Americans are simply better than this, and we must show this, cleanly and clearly. The appeals to fear and horror must be rejected.

And I have faith, given all of the above, that in a week they will be.

  • http://wowpanda.blogspot.com wowpanda

    When ever you attack, you need to specify your sources.
    @sinnch, check http://www.nolanchart.com/article3849.html

    @pharniel Greenspan is a republican, not a libertarian. There are 2 school of leechers, the demos courts the poor welfare mothers with 8 kids, and republicans courts failed wall street execs.

    Obama/Demos: raise taxes for working people, hand to people who are too lazy to work, and get their vote. That is Obama’s idea of share wealth.

    Republicans (nowadays): pour billions to failed (and stupid) executives who should be bankrupted and broken right now. And they tell us it is for our own good.

    You want to share wealth? then lower taxes, let the good people create wealth, let the bad ones bankrupt and their wealth will be managed by more capable people.

    Want to lower debt? instead of raise taxes, stop pork first! Those in Washington will prefer to spend what ever amount is raised first.

  • http://www.thisisnotacommunity.org D-0ne

    Wowpanda where do you get your information on Obama’s tax plan? You’re so wrong it’s laughable.

    http://www.parade.com/news/intelligence-report/archive/how-much-would-you-pay-taxes.html

  • kildy

    I don’t grasp why people think Obama’s going to jack everyone’s taxes up.

    Lowering taxes MORE with a debt and two wars is… insanity. It’s not possible. It’s just not at all doable. I mean, we could cut all of social security, medicare/medicaid and slash the education budget and MAYBE pull it off, but it would suck. Also be monumentally stupid.

    As for taxing the workers and giving to the lazy: if you think people making under $250,000 a year are lazy.. Fuck You.

    Lowering taxes to promote trickle down economics is what we’ve been doing for ages. It’s not helping reduce the wealth gap. Turns out trickle down economics assumes everyone on the planet is a saint, and nobody’s a dick. Anyone on the internet should understand that what you’re essentially asking is that everyone in every MMO ever roll greed on things they won’t equip immediately, and pass if they think they’ve gotten enough loot this run.

  • http://wowpanda.blogspot.com wowpanda

    @d-one
    Read this http://www.heritage.org/research/Taxes/wm1973.cfm

    1. You might think 250,000 a year is a lot of money. back in 1995, 30k/year was good salary. now engineers from india makes double as much as new hires. When income tax was first introduced, only top natch people are high enough to pay, now almost all of us need to pay.

    2. those people who make that money are most likely small business people. they have high pressures. The stores around my area pay about 2000/month for a small store area in rent alone. Under Obama, their tax rate could be 50%. Do you want to work hard all year long, take the risks, and at end of year have 50% of your revenue submited as tax? That is money they can use to expand, add employees. Now it is gone, be wasted on government pork.

    3. Investors with money. Startups cost money, and only 1 out of 10 start ups survive. with the 50% tax rate, I would believe some of the interest investments all of a sudden became too risky. So government waste money on pork well the next google/microsoft is wasted.

    Is there any sign of government pork spending slowing down? No. As soon as the election passes, the bridge to nowhere will start again.

  • http://wowpanda.blogspot.com wowpanda

    @kildy, before you spit out f words, learn to read and stop putting words into my mouth. The big problem with debt is spending (pork and the war bush started), to reduce debt, cut spending first.

  • Turlow

    I live in Ohio and already voted there for the election is over. Everyone please shut up. I’ve had enough. Someone make the voices stop! Argghh! I can’t take this anymore! Where’s my gun…..

  • Disinformation

    As I understand it, Obama’s business tax change starting at 250k is 250k of profits, not revenue. Capital expenses associated with starting a business can be spread out over many years against revenue, also rent, salaries, the costs of doing business, etc are all set against revenue — by the time you’re looking at paying more in taxes you are already a large and successful business.

    And yes, 250k is a lot of money – it’s more than double what I’m currently living on, and I live a pretty decent life. I don’t know how much you’re making, but I only know 1 family who is making more than 250k, and they don’t have a problem with Obama’s tax plan.

  • http://werit.blogspot.com/ Werit

    I want to know what the ‘rich’ line is now. It started at 250k, then in the debates Obama said 200k, then Biden just said 150k during a speech. I think this is combined income for you married folks. If not, please correct me.

  • http://relmstein.blogspot.com Relmstein

    Obama is the better speaker and has played a cleaner campaign, but I’m not a big fan of giving the democrats control of both congress and the white house. I also have a feeling that Obama is less willing to cut back on government spending then John McCain. I make much less then 250,000 a year so I’m not that threatened by Obama’s tax plan, but I do dread his Health Care program which could turn into yet another line item reduction on my paycheck like Social Security.

  • http://www.damnedvulpine.com/ J.

    I miss the Darkfall invasion. Simpler times, simpler minds.

    lol @ “impeachobama”. He has to be elected before he can be impeached. Hurr.

  • ReptileHouse

    Thanks for this, Scott. Well said.

  • kildy

    The line is $250,000. You can find this in any of his policies.

    Biden was Technically correct (his statement wasn’t that above 150 you’d be taxed more, it was that people making less than 150,000 would see a tax break, $150,000 is below $250,000 and technically correct in that under $250,000 would see a break).

    As for government spending: Obama plans to spend more than McCain on the government. However, due to the tax reduction in McCain’s plan, McCain would grow the deficit more than Obama. While one is a tax and spend liberal, the other is a spend and spend republican. We’re out of fiscal conservatives in power, which is why I’ve abandoned the party.

    As for health care line items, I presume you mean McCain’s health care plan. Which would, depending on the day of the week, either slash Medicare/medicaid funding to pay for the tax credit, or tax your health care plan as income. He changes where the money comes from pretty frequently. I believe we’re back to health care plans being taxable income.

  • http://wowpanda.blogspot.com wowpanda

    I am far from that line too, and I have no idea how much others make. However read my comments. The plan will have a effect of slowing good growth, and with increase of living standards, (30k to 60k in 15 years), a lot of us will reach that line sooner than you think.

    The big off on his tax plan is, he is getting money from the archivers so they can’t use that to create better wealth, and that money will be run through a much inefficient government, be used on pork, ware etc.
    Wealth is created. The more others create it, the more they can be enjoyed (to most of us it will be in the form of increased salary).

    Also do you think Obama’s universal health care thing will cost as he claimed. The social security system was supposed to work, you know what is happening.

  • kildy

    Wowpanda: I’ll drop the F word. 250,000 and up is still the top 5% of the US population. If you feel it’s not much money: A) you suck at budgets, and B) you don’t grasp how large the wealth gap in America is.

    As for reducing spending: Obama’s plan grows the national debt slower than McCain’s plan. Ending the war is already on the list. Pork spending is a debatable term. Earmarks are less than 1% of federal spending, and eliminating them doesn’t actually get the 1% back (they rarely allocate new funds, they direct existing funds. A $100 million military spending bill with a $1 million earmark is not a $99 million spending bill without the earmark, it’s a $100m spending bill still.) McCain has not said what he’d magically cut to get this money back, so his savings from fighting pork spending is using his estimated numbers, while Obama’s plan is quite spelled out.

    But still, I stand by my statement: if you think anyone making less than 250,000 is lazy (which is pretty much what you said by Obama wanting to give money to the lazy people and tax the workers, since he wants to tax anyone making over $250,000, that means by your own statement under that = lazy not workers.) Fuck You.

  • kildy

    Thus far, the wealth gap is growing in the US. Do you know what that means?

    It means your “archivers” aren’t spending their money, they’re gaining more of it. Since it’s nearly a zero sum game (barring inflation), this money is coming from somewhere. More specifically it means that they’re not spending it and thus putting the money back into other people’s hands.

    Trickle Down Economics doesn’t work. Never has.

    But heck, let’s go with this: Obama wants to raise taxes on anyone making over $250,000 to Clinton era tax rates. Our economy did great, and everyone had a lot more effective money.

    As for a lot of us reaching that line: he’s raising the tax on the bracket. If everyone suddenly shows up in that bracket: the brackets change. This is pretty basic information.

  • http://www.leftoversraiding.org Bregor

    It’s funny, listening to what people say Obama or McCain is “going to do”. How do you know this? When have politicians lived up to their campaign promises?

    Bush 2 didn’t.
    Clinton didn’t.
    Bush 1 didn’t.
    Reagan might have, but I don’t know – I was learning to walk and talk through his presidency.

    People will promise all sorts of things to get elected. How can you trust them? Obama’s throwing up more promises than you can count, and McCain’s reinvented himself at least once in the last few years. Neither of these really scream “You can trust me!” to me. *shrug*

    /Yes, I AM a cynic, how did you know?

  • Davide`

    Watching your election from this Canadians viewpoint…

    I am not familiar with all of the issues, especially the economic ones, so I really don’t understand the details.

    But what I see is a young guy that says “change” alot but doesn’t tell anyone what that change is, versus an old guy that had the stuffing kicked out of him in a POW camp.

    So i guess it depends on what you are after.

    It looks like Obama will win, which will make folks feel better about getting their “change” but it will be interesting seeing this guy running the ship and how he will be dealing with all of the problems going on right now….

  • http://wowpanda.blogspot.com wowpanda

    Kildy,
    thanks, much easier to read without “F” words.
    Here is wiki site for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics, it has pros and cons.

    Just monthes after Clinton, stock market clapses. Bush is not that smart but he can’t inflict the damage that quick can he?

    And to your last question, why are we (the not so rich) paying incoming taxes? When it is introduced, it was supposed to be a rich man’s tax. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States
    that was around 1893, less than 10% of people have $4000 income/year.
    Now all that money is on pork and war (even the war funding is pork to some big contracts).

    I will only vote for a guy who can get the pork spending under control, and Barr is the most likely (but both party avoid him like plague, they won’t invite him to debats either).

  • kildy

    Bob Barr, mister Flat Tax? Okay…

    As for the stock market collapsing post Clinton, we all know what happened, and we all know it had absolutely nothing to do with presidential politics. The part I WILL fault Clinton on was running with the deregulation of banks (which leads to our current issue)

    Trickle Down Economics fails under the basic idea that any increased income to a company will be immediately distributed towards the workers, instead of used to either expand the company or (most frequent right now) turned directly into bonuses for the executives. Very few companies do profit sharing.

    What you do see a lot of are misleading statistics. Trickle down’s defense, from your own link is only supported by numbers if you replace it with “how friendly a state is towards free enterprise” which has nothing to do with personal income tax (both R and D candidates have suggested lowering the corporate tax rate, Obama proposes closing all the tax dodges at the same time, however.

    Anyways, As for Barr: Go nuts. I think it would rock if there were more parties in the US, but our election system makes any more than 2 active parties cripple the ones closest to each other (if you have 1 conservative party and 2 liberal parties, the liberals just wind up splitting their votes and will always loose, and vice versa. It’s a stupid system.) Though in their defense, the two parties have no say in inviting Barr to debates. They have say in trying to sue to get third party candidates off ballots in states, which is referring to the initial problem with more than 2 parties in the US, but the debate commission decides who to invite.

  • Marc

    Ross Perot

  • http://werit.blogspot.com/ Werit

    250k is not a lot of money, especially in terms of this wealth gap. The real gap is between those that must work for a living, and those that can live off of their fortunes interest. This will not hurt them at all. Sure Capital gains would go up, but if they have paid off everything, then they actually can have a low income. You can’t really tax equity.

    It has been shown that higher capital gains tax actually means less tax revenue for the government. It will also lower investments into businesses, which will eventually result in fewer jobs for the folks this is meant to help.

    What I see this as is more of a ‘punishment’ tax, just like his oil windfall tax plan (which will never happen but sounds good to voters). People like to hear that they will go get those rich folks.

    Politicians and their tax plans (both parties) always feel like buying votes, hell, Obama has a calculator on his site that basically means : vote for me and I will give you this much money. I don’t know if McCain has a calculator on his site.

  • http://ptsoft.blogspot.com BugHunter

    From Obama:

    “In the radio interview, Obama delved into whether the civil rights movement should have gone further than it did, so that when “dispossessed peoples” appealed to the high court on the right to sit at the lunch counter, they should have also appealed for the right to have someone else pay for the meal. Obama said the civil rights movement was victorious in some regards, but failed to create a “redistributive change” in its appeals to the Supreme Court, led at the time by Chief Justice Earl Warren. He suggested that such change should occur at the state legislature level, since the courts did not interpret the U.S. Constitution to permit such change.

    “The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of basic issues of political and economic justice in this society, and to that extent as radical as people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical,” Obama said in the interview, a recording of which surfaced on the Internet over the weekend.

    “It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it has been interpreted.”

    ps. McCain hates you just as much.

  • Disinformation

    @72, Fail, try again?

    [Obama legal advisor Cass] Sunstein argued that Obama is discussing redistribution in a relatively narrow legal context: The discussion in the 1970s of whether the Supreme Court would create the right to a social safety net — to things like education and welfare. He also noted that in the interview, Obama appears to express support for the court’s rejection of that line of argument, saying instead that the civil rights movement should aim for the same goals through legislative action.

    “What the critics are missing is that the term ‘redistribution’ didn’t mean in the Constitutional context equalized wealth or anything like that. It meant some positive rights, most prominently the right to education, and also the right to a lawyer,” Sunstein said. “What he’s saying – this is the irony of it – he’s basically taking the side of the conservatives then and now against the liberals.”

  • Jeremy Dalberg

    Bughunter, at least quote the actual statement, not a misleading summary.

    “Obama said “one of the, I think, the tragedies of the civil rights movement, was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that.”"

    What he was actually saying seems to be that focusing the civil rights movement on the courts wasn’t the most effective way to go, not that it didn’t go far enough. (Further quotes and analysis, including links to both sides, here.)

  • http://werit.blogspot.com/ Werit

    Dailykos links….

    I think that the radio quotes is blown out of proportion. However, he did say:

    “I’d be okay, but the Supreme Court never entered into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society.”

    I don’t want to post the rest of the quote for space sake, people should read it for themselves anyways. But it seems clear “redistribution of wealth” and “economic justice” is something he was interested in.

  • http://werit.blogspot.com/ Werit

    Listen for yourself and make your own decisions.

  • Grinless

    Also watching from canada, so I will let Americans choose who is the better man for the job.

    But I will also add that those who believe the current economic crisis was brought by lack of “regulation”. Hell, get yourself some basic economic education.

  • http://ptsoft.blogspot.com BugHunter

    You can say all you want that redistribution in the context of the 70s only meant right to education. That doesn’t change the truth of a man wanting to take more money from one group of people, and give it to the 40% of the country who already don’t pay any taxes already. I mean really, do you honestly think those above $250k aren’t just going to increase prices and lower wages to maintain their current status quo?

    That should make you just as frightened as an ancient out of touch dungeons and dragons hater that will happily drag us into wars with everyone he possibly can.

    I’d vote for any single person involved in this thread, over those two ignorant psychopaths.

  • Gawain

    BugHunter: I’d vote for any single person involved in this thread, over those two ignorant psychopaths.

    And our enemies will celebrate all over the world!

  • D.Vader

    “I am a conservative and I will be voting for Barack Obama.”

    I am not thrilled with McCain, but he is much closer to being a conservative then Obama. How can you say you are a conservative and support a candidate that wants to play Robin Hood and redistribute your wealth? Obama is now waffling on the $250K tax point. It may be as low as $150K.

    How much of your opinion has been skewed by the liberal media that seems to polish Obama off at any time and make ridicule of McCain at any point?

    Don’t make light of Obama’s alliances. He launched his polical campaign in William Ayer’s house. Now there is a video that the LA Times is holding up with Obama at a going away party for a known PLO supporter. At this party Anti-Semetic poetry was read.

    Obama is a politcal neophyte and his alliances are dangerous. With him in office and the congress the way it is our country won’t be the representitive democracy it once was. We will be changed to mob-rule populist socialism.

  • Scott Jennings

    Some brief comments on the comments:

    Bob Barr: The fact that the Libertarian Party nominated Bob Barr is an excellent demonstration of how the LP is no longer (if it ever was) actually libertarian. His voting history and views are those of social conservatism, not libertarianism.

    Taxes/redistribution of wealth: Unless you are a hard core libertarian and believe that government should tax no one at all (which is an entirely separate discussion, and not an argument either Obama or McCain is making) then the discussion becomes who should bear that burden. It is not a redistribution of wealth (unless the government pushes through yet another useless $400 stimulus check scheme, which is depressingly bipartisan) but a marker of which income bracket should bear more of the burden for governance. And insisting that the lowest paid workers should pay the highest tax burden is not only amoral, it’s nonsensical. As for the wealthiest 1% requiring free capital in order to reinvest – have you been paying attention the past decade? The wealthiest 1% have not been reinvesting in anything save their own wealth. The income disparity between the wealthiest 1% and the lowest 25% is at its largest since… well, ever. Given that, I show no sympathy towards their taxes being raised; and again we are not talking about some Republican-fed nightmare of Marxist nationalization of wealth, but a simple tax hike for those who can well afford it.

    $250k is quite a lot of money, actually. Our family makes around $120k and I think we are well off.

    Obama “pals around with terrorists”/Ayers/PLO spokespersons: this is simple guilt by association. Bill Ayers is a person with a dark history and reprehensible views, whom Obama has condemend often. Bill Ayers is also not a criminal, but a figure in Chicago-area academia. This says a lot about academia of course, but does it mean that anyone involved with academia in Illinois is now unsuited for higher office? This is a classic example of smearing by association: the Republicans repeat “Obama” and “terrorist” in the same sentence so frequently that you associate the two terms (as can be seen from numerous Republican rallies where the audience outright labels Obama a terrorist). This is propaganda unworthy of a national party.

    I do not base my opinions solely on the “liberal media”. I read a *great* deal, much of it blogs of every partisan hue and news sources based outside the US. I will not take credit for that much, but I will demand acknowledgment that I am well-informed. :)

    Rehabilitating Afghanistan is important, Iraq isn’t: Several reasons. First off, Afghanistan pre-2001 was a wholly owned fief of al-Qaeda. Which, unlike Iraq, did actually attack this country. Eliminating the power of al-Qaeda is a national imperative. Second, Iraq’s problems have moved on from the Hussein regime to a fratricidal civil war. Whether or not Iraq had a nuclear weapons program, whether or not sanctions would have eliminated them, the fact remains: Iraq TODAY is fighting a civil war. This is not something America should be involved in. We should not be picking sides between Sunni and Shi’a militiamen. If Iraq is hellbent on national suicide as a consequence of the Baathist overthrow, that is not our problem. It’s our *fault* – but from a very cold calculus of national interests, very much not our problem.

    Democratic supremacy of executive/legislative/judicial government is dangerous: yes, I agree, but I think it is a price we need to pay to gain a strong, intellectually honest conservative movement once again. The Republican party is corrupt, and riven with factions (social conservatism, neoconservatism) I want no part of. And if the Democrats overreach, well, that would be a great opportunity for a Republican renewal.

    Scott is no longer a conservative: if being called a conservative means being part of the choir while Sarah Palin preaches anti-intellectual cant and divisive hatred, then rip up my fucking party card today.

  • http://bdadv.blogspot.com Bonedead

    Oh wow look, there’s a smiley face at the bottom of the page, neat.

  • SpentMotiff

    “This must be confronted. It must be rejected. We as Americans are simply better than this, and we must show this, cleanly and clearly. The appeals to fear and horror must be rejected.”

    This is by far the best, most honest assessment of the upcoming election as I have seen yet. From a GAMING BLOG. Surely the Apocalypse is upon us.

    Well said, Scott. Well said.

  • http://werit.blogspot.com/ Werit

    Scott: Obama is not going after the top 1%. Instead he is going after the ~5%’ers. 250k is chump change in comparison to the actual wealthy.

    Obama seems to associate with a lot shady characters. Ayers is definitely someone I would not want to associate with on any level, as he does not regret his past actions.

    As for Iraq…it is a civil war, but whether we like it or not, the outcome will affect us in the future. A Democratic Iraq (free of fundamentalist control) is good for everyone. If a fundamentalist government comes to power, we will have even more issues down the line. Iraq does sit on top of an important resource, so yes they matter to us. I wish they didn’t, but that is just the way it is at this point in time. We are starting to work are way out of there, hopefully it continues.

    Please do tell about the “Sarah Palin preaches anti-intellectual cant and divisive hatred”, I haven’t seen it. (seriously)

  • Klaitu

    I have to agree that the McCain people have totally blown their campaign, and they don’t have much hope of winning this time around. I don’t really agree with a lot of what McCain has been doing, nor a lot of his policies.

    Unfortunately, I also don’t agree with Obama much of the time either. Both of these candidates suck.

    Regarding foreign policy, I see McCain as oldschool. He has an idea of handling things as we did in the 50s and 60s, where America basically leaned on everyone it could since it was trying to compete with the USSR.

    Obama on the other hand, is the exact opposite. He would run foreign affairs in a way designed to make America more popular internationally, for the sake of making America look more popular. Apparently Obama is all about popularity contests.

    Both of these I disagree with.

    Regarding the Economy:

    I think that the Economy is really a non-issue. The poorest people here in America are still some of the richest people in the world.. so all things considered, things are not that bad. That doesn’t mean that things shouldn’t be fixed, however.

    As you have no doubt noticed, people are crazy insane about money. They love money, they want more money.. and this whole “almost kinda recession” thing is eating people’s wallets. We’ve got nothing to worry about here, because our country is chock filled with legions of rich people who want to be richer, and who want to fix the economy so that they can line their own pockets with even more cash.

    This isn’t even a political issue. Whoever becomes president will be pressured into doing whatever they can to remedy the situation.

    At any rate, regarding the stimulus thing, which you described as “depressingly bipartisan” will, actually work. As you mentioned, it is bipartisan, and it’s bipartisan because everyone’s backed into a corner and there are no other options that will work. Think about it.. who decided to do this stimulus thing? Rich people, that’s who. you think thousands of rich people are doing to shoot themselves in the foot? If there’s one thing that you can expect politicians to do, it’s cover their own butts.

    Regarding Taxes:

    My income is below 25K per year, I am not married. I pay about 18% of my income in federal taxes. My father, on the other hand, makes around 150-175K per year, and pays over 50% of his income in taxes.

    Now we get into “how do you view income?” because at 18% I certainly am not rich, and if I had a family to support? I’d be toast. My dad, however, pays a higher percentage, and even with that takes home over 3 times the amount of cash that I do. He certainly has enough to live on.. so in a sense, he can “afford” a 50% tax rate.

    However, I worked my butt off for 100% of my money, and so did my Dad. My 18% doesn’t make much of a difference in my income, but for him, his income is double what he takes home.. essentially half of the work he does isn’t even for his own benefit.

    Is my dad rich? He’s certainly well off, but I wouldn’t describe him as rich.

    The notion that people who earn more money should pay a higher tax percentage simply because they have deeper pockets is ridiculous.

    You mentioned that flat taxes somehow “punish the poor”. Well, I’m poor. Give everyone an 18% tax rate if they make over X amount per year. Is this really that hard to figure out?

    The reason that nobody has done this is because it would mean the government rakes in less money per year, which means that politicians can’t throw that money around to buy votes with useless government expendatures.

    I think that McCain would attempt to lower my taxes (and I’m not rich). I think that Obama will attempt to raise my taxes. I don’t think either of them would be able to push through a true tax reform that would mean anything.

    Regarding Iraq:

    How many people does it take to start a war? The answer? More than the president.

    People often try to ask “what is the war in Iraq about”. The real answer that nobody wants to admit is “At the time, a lot of people were convinced there were terrorists there, and WMD’s there.” It wasn’t just one guy that said “you hurt my daddy, prepare to die”. It was senators, congressmen, CIA analyists, military intelligence experts.. and if that wasn’t enough, their counterparts in multiple foreign nations who also agreed that “hey, this warrants military action”. These people aren’t stupid, and it cost everyone who participated money.

    When we got to Iraq, it turns out that there were, in fact terrorists there.. and there were Biological WMD’s there, but not so nearly as much as we thought, and not the same ones as we thought. In fact, it turns out that this whole Iraq thing probably wasn’t worth the time, effort, and money that we invested on it.

    But what about the people in Iraq? We were the ones who kicked over their sand castle. Should we just walk off and leave them then? I don’t think so. We screwed up, we made a mess, and now that we did all that, I don’t think we should just say “oops” and run off. I think that sticking around and helping to rebuild their sandcastle is the right thing to do.. and if we can, we ought to help them build it better than it was before.

    Contrary to what people would have you think, the soldiers in Iraq aren’t just there to hunt down bad guys. There is a sizeable portion of the forces there that are repairing bridges, installing water filtration systems for villages, and helping their police keep order.

    Is this a cause that American lives should be put at risk for? Now that we made a mess of things already, I say yes.

    Regarding Palin:

    Does anyone really care about Palin? The McCain campaign obviously picked her strategically to generate more votes for themselves. McCain is seen my hardcore conservatives to be “too liberal” and pulling someone who is more conservative.. especially who is a woman and more conservative is probably a good thing in terms of buying votes. I can’t really fault them there, I mean.. they’re politicians and manipulating people is what they do.

    I think you’re right about the republican party being out of touch, but this sort of thing is cyclical. One party stays in, does its thing, and people get fed up with their political BS.. then the other party says “vote for us, we haven’t BS’d you in 8 years!” and so people do.

    That’s how Clinton got in office. That’s how George W got in office.. and I’ll bet it’s how Obama gets in office, too. If Obama doesn’t do something stupid in his first 4 years, he’ll win re-election in 4 years, and then the republicans will win the next one after him in 8 years. That’s just how it goes.

  • Scott Jennings

    @84: Obama doesn’t associate with a lot of shady characters, he’s *painted* as associating with a lot of shady characters. He’s a US Senator, and a state legislator before that. The shady characters he associates with are called “lobbyists”. He does not spend his days hanging around the basement of shifty bomb throwers with foreign-sounding names; that’s just the Fox News media narrative and it’s a shameful and insulting one.

    A Democratic non-fundamentalist Iraq would be nice. A Democratic non-fundamentalist Saudi Arabia would also be nice. It is not our place to mandate either.

    Re: Palin’s anti-intellectualism: her refusal to speak to mainstream media in anything other than the most scripted of settings, her mockery of said media as the “gotcha news media”, her dismissal of any commentary on the issues of today and resorting to “homespun” memorized talking points, her frankly ridiculous performance in the VP debate where she spent her time veering wildly off topic to maintain said memorized talking points while winking – *winking* – into the camera, and most notably and most troubling, her recent campaign rallies where she has whipped up a McCarthyite fervor against her electoral opponents, not based on issues but on a thin strand of associations as proof that her opponents are literally terrorists who hate America.

  • Scott Jennings

    @85: “I think that McCain would attempt to lower my taxes”

    No, he would not. The tax plan McCain proposes contains minimal (~$50) cuts for your bracket.

    http://www.electiontaxes.com/ – non-partisan comparison of both plans.

  • http://werit.blogspot.com/ Werit

    Scott: I agree about the lobbyists of course. No one says he hangs around plotting with them. But I’m not sure how you can deny he has a relationship with Ayers. They worked together, Ayers even gave a little party for Obama at the start of his political careers. They are not best friends, but they are not strangers either. There is also the preacher at his church, the convicted Rezco and now this PLO debacle with the LA Times (which I don’t know enough to speak on yet, so it could be nothing).

    Of course Fox is biased, just like other outlets. That doesn’t mean the above never took place does it?

    Well, we did topple the Iraqi Government already, so we shouldn’t leave them hanging.

    I’m not sure what to say to you about Palin, as you ignore most of those same issues in the candidates of your choice. The last sentence though, Ayers was (is? Once a terrorist always a terrorist? When does it expire?) an admitted terrorist. As is known, they were friendly (i.e. pals). Do you put on functions for complete strangers?

    So her statement while inflammatory (and unnecessary) is not false. So I agree and disagree with you on that.

  • http://werit.blogspot.com/ Werit

    Scott: I am enjoying the actual non-flaming political talk. Yay for that :)

  • AcidCat

    The association with Ayers is completely irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. Ayers is currently a professor at the University of Illinois. Should students not attend his classes for fear that they are associating with a terrorist? Just a brief reading of Ayers wiki page should give you a clue, this is not a dude who is out planting bombs, he is now a respected citizen of Chicago. Should everyone shun him now because of what happened forty years ago? And the fact that Obama had a brief association with him is supposed to disqualify him from being president? It’s totally ridiculous. Just a totally ridiculous political smokescreen McCain’s campaign farted out in desperation.

  • Merusk

    If we’re going to bring up the whole Ayers thing as if it’s relevant, let’s reexamine that McCain-Keating connection again. Guild by association, sure, McCain’s got his hands in the S&L mess AND the current set of fuck ups, and then chooses to make a blood relative of Keating’s brother-in-law is such a prominent figure. Yeah, that’s just who we want taking care of things.

    Or did you all miss that’s who “Joe the Plumber” is?

  • Anonymous

    “Should students not attend his classes for fear that they are associating with a terrorist?”

    I don’t think the Ayers, et al. connection has been brought up to spook people into thinking Obama will encourage washed-up weekend revolutionaries to run around planting bombs, but as a counterpoint to any attempts by his campaign to paint him as a moderate or centrist, given that many of his associates in Chicago were well to the left of the Democratic Party. (And also because the similar attack on Wright was probably the only one that left a mark, albeit temporary, on Obama’s campaign.)

  • http://wowpanda.blogspot.com wowpanda

    Scott, Barr is primarily a fiscal conservative.
    Here are some of the facts:
    http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm
    http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain.htm
    http://www.ontheissues.org/GA/Bob_Barr.htm

    Interesting Obama supported Charter schools (but not a vote). If he support school vouchers and vote yes on $40B in reduced federal overall spending, I would actually vote for him.

    And thanks for your calculator, Obama would save me some tax money too.

    However I disagree with you on redistribution of wealth.
    See my link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States
    The original income tax is for people who make over $4000/year, of the richest 10% of people. Now it is on all of us!! Your 120k/year will be 240k easily in the next 15 years.

    But the most important thing is this. If this government is clean, where the tax dollars are truely used to help us, a little tax is nothing. However did you notice where the money went? It is used to build bridges to no where, measure how long rat’s tails are, making banks that does not fear of losing money (Fannie and Fredi). Most of us, rich or poor, gets our wealth through hard work. What right does the politicians has to waste them on pork?

  • sinij

    I recently read Richard K. Morgan “Thirteen”, very enjoyable sci-fiction book that touched in great detail on what American political future might be. I highly recommend it just because of that.

  • sinij

    Oh and 1…2…3…4 until Obama’s landslide victory and prompt assassination.

  • http://antipwn.wordpress.com IainC

    The Ayers thing is a smokescreen. Even Chicago Republicans said it was a non-issue.

    “It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier,” said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. “It’s ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It’s nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It’s so silly.”

  • Klaitu

    Regarding campaign-promised effects on taxes:

    You said that McCain wouldn’t lower my taxes, and then you state that his plan would, in fact, lower my taxes.. and then you give a website that proves that McCain would lower my taxes.

    Truth be told, I’d be okay with a drop in my tax rate, but as it is, I can handle the current tax rate. I certainly don’t want it to go up, which according to that same website, my taxes wil go up nearly $200 with Obama’s plan.

    So, according to your own sources, McCain gives me $50 back, and Obama charges me $200 more than present.

    If we were only considering taxes, my vote would be sold on the guy who doesn’t want to take more of my money.

    I don’t know what the real thinking is behind Obama’s plan. I’m not the very lowest bracket, so that must mean that I can afford to shell out more cash to a government that can’t use it effectively.

    There really is nothing quite so bothersome as a group of rich people deciding how much of my money they should take out of my pocket and put into their own.

  • wahuh?

    Are there two Klaitus in this thread? At post 85, you said “My income is below 25K per year, I am not married.” … when I plug that in at the link Scott provided, you pay about $500 more under McCain’s plan. If I put in an additional 28k or so per year from long term cap gains, then I can get close to you paying more. If you’re making 28k per year from long term cap gains in this market, you should be advising people – or you have a few million in some fund somewhere. But yes, in the end no matter who is president this 10.5 trillion bill will need to be paid, and it’ll have to be paid with taxes. Since the beginning of September the nat’l debt has increased 880 billion (thanks, TARP!). China, Japan, and the Middle East will want to be paid back eventually (talk about compromising national security….. what better way to do it than put our financial future in their hands!).

  • Vandermint

    “It is deeply frightening for anyone with a sense of history, and the Republican campaign has been extremely irresponsible in its prosceution of the campaign and its consequent corrosion of the national dialogue. I disagree with many people politically – this does not mean they are Insert-scary-meaningless-word-here.”

    You can’t seriously argue that the “corrosion of the national dialogue” is a *consequence* of the Republican 2008 presidential campaign. Or perhaps you’ve just missed some pretty corrosive words, images, and actions lobbed by the other side over the past several years. I’d agree that American political discourse is in the toilet, but it didn’t start with Governor Palin saying Senator Obama could have picked his friends better. Your dropping of the four-letter “N” word, and the 7.6 million google responses to “Bush is a Nazi”, are ironic.

    We’re overly politicized in this country, and the internet, 24 hour news cycle, and having only two political parties exacerbates things. If I suspected Barack Obama was capable of being the post-partisan as he was once presented, that would be reason enough to vote for him. But he’s not and has no history of reaching across the aisle. There was a rush to delegitimize and villify Bush and Cheyney even before 9/11, and it’s naieve to expect better treatment of Obama. This is what we are now, and it’s not the fault of one side or the other.

    And what does any of this have to do with…

  • Gawain

    Dammit, I can’t believe this hasn’t yet broken down to the point where I can start posting youtube links to videos of rednecks saying Obama is a terrorist because of his middle name.

    You people are too mature for your own damn good.

    A pox upon you.

    And our enemies will celebrate all over the world.