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	<title>Comments on: Punching Babies: Why Darkfall Can, Should, And Must Succeed</title>
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	<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Gaming And Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: mchammer</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21760</link>
		<dc:creator>mchammer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 07:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21760</guid>
		<description>population has been really low lately,
hopefully they will fix this with the new patch and expansion coming up
pz out niGGUH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>population has been really low lately,<br />
hopefully they will fix this with the new patch and expansion coming up<br />
pz out niGGUH</p>
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		<title>By: nero</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21759</link>
		<dc:creator>nero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21759</guid>
		<description>you idiots missed the point.  do you really only want to see mmos from 2 companys that pander to the masses and make games where idiots can compete with experts if they pick the right class?   Thats what WoW is.  I loved UO and have been looking for a new one ever since, darkfall comes pretty close and FYI I played UO for 7 years you stupid sons of bitches who think the pvper is fickle, thats the players that wow retains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you idiots missed the point.  do you really only want to see mmos from 2 companys that pander to the masses and make games where idiots can compete with experts if they pick the right class?   Thats what WoW is.  I loved UO and have been looking for a new one ever since, darkfall comes pretty close and FYI I played UO for 7 years you stupid sons of bitches who think the pvper is fickle, thats the players that wow retains.</p>
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		<title>By: JuJutsu</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21758</link>
		<dc:creator>JuJutsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21758</guid>
		<description>@softdev

Yup. I&#039;m completely clueless about the &#039;behind the scenes&#039; of software development. I do know about the &#039;behind the scenes&#039; of other technological arenas. I know that they are just as difficult if not moreso (you want to argue that coding software is harder than microbiology...go for it). I know that they can&#039;t get by with pushing junk out the door and justify it with &#039;but it&#039;s too hard to do right&#039;.
Let me be blunt: if you can&#039;t get a decent product done on time and within budget find another line of work. You either suck at design or you suck at implementation. Your company can then hire someone competent at project design and project management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@softdev</p>
<p>Yup. I&#8217;m completely clueless about the &#8216;behind the scenes&#8217; of software development. I do know about the &#8216;behind the scenes&#8217; of other technological arenas. I know that they are just as difficult if not moreso (you want to argue that coding software is harder than microbiology&#8230;go for it). I know that they can&#8217;t get by with pushing junk out the door and justify it with &#8216;but it&#8217;s too hard to do right&#8217;.<br />
Let me be blunt: if you can&#8217;t get a decent product done on time and within budget find another line of work. You either suck at design or you suck at implementation. Your company can then hire someone competent at project design and project management.</p>
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		<title>By: softdev</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21757</link>
		<dc:creator>softdev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21757</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-22447&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@JuJutsu&lt;/a&gt;
You are comparing apples to oranges here. I noticed that the last line of your comment said that software development is tough, and that you couldn&#039;t do it. You sound like you are completely clueless to what goes on behind the scenes of software development. Please remember that next time you feel the need to comment on the intricacies of the software industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-22447" rel="nofollow">@JuJutsu</a><br />
You are comparing apples to oranges here. I noticed that the last line of your comment said that software development is tough, and that you couldn&#8217;t do it. You sound like you are completely clueless to what goes on behind the scenes of software development. Please remember that next time you feel the need to comment on the intricacies of the software industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Failure In The Eye of the MMO-er</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21756</link>
		<dc:creator>Failure In The Eye of the MMO-er</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21756</guid>
		<description>[...] Toys has an interesting read regarding the nature of Darkfall and why success is needed, and I do have to agree. There honestly does have to be a place where the hardcore, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Toys has an interesting read regarding the nature of Darkfall and why success is needed, and I do have to agree. There honestly does have to be a place where the hardcore, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Asher</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21755</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Asher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21755</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-22420&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-22420&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Einherjer&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
@The Claw
Any software product must strike a balance between being shipped with a few bugs or being endlessly delayed due to further testing and bug correction.
Blizzard has now become The Man, but back in 04 they were already bigger than Mythic or any other MMO company operating at that time. They could afford to take their time as they can now. And even then, WoW had a troublesome start as with any game. Of course there are those that cannot take their fanboi-rose-colored glasses off. In two years from now, if Warhammer survives, their launch will be considered the most immaculated launch ever with angel choirs singing hosannas as the first players logged into the server.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You know, it&#039;s not the immediate problems with a launch that doom a game, it&#039;s the long-term problems that become evident in the first few months. Witness Age of Conan and the incomplete PvP system. People will now say that Conan was launched incomplete, but the launch itself was decent enough and the game quite playable.

I think the same thing has happened with Warhammer. It launched with an RvR system that just doesn&#039;t work the way it should, due to the difficulty of controlling player actions. It&#039;s easier to trade keeps than it is fight for them. It&#039;s easier to disappear from oRvR by joining a scenario than it is run around find players to fight, etc.

So Darkfall&#039;s immediate problems are the kind that can be overcome. The long-term problems are yet to be known, though the harsh PvP style may be one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="#commentbody-22420"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-22420" rel="nofollow">Einherjer</a> :</strong><br />
@The Claw<br />
Any software product must strike a balance between being shipped with a few bugs or being endlessly delayed due to further testing and bug correction.<br />
Blizzard has now become The Man, but back in 04 they were already bigger than Mythic or any other MMO company operating at that time. They could afford to take their time as they can now. And even then, WoW had a troublesome start as with any game. Of course there are those that cannot take their fanboi-rose-colored glasses off. In two years from now, if Warhammer survives, their launch will be considered the most immaculated launch ever with angel choirs singing hosannas as the first players logged into the server.
</p></blockquote>
<p>You know, it&#8217;s not the immediate problems with a launch that doom a game, it&#8217;s the long-term problems that become evident in the first few months. Witness Age of Conan and the incomplete PvP system. People will now say that Conan was launched incomplete, but the launch itself was decent enough and the game quite playable.</p>
<p>I think the same thing has happened with Warhammer. It launched with an RvR system that just doesn&#8217;t work the way it should, due to the difficulty of controlling player actions. It&#8217;s easier to trade keeps than it is fight for them. It&#8217;s easier to disappear from oRvR by joining a scenario than it is run around find players to fight, etc.</p>
<p>So Darkfall&#8217;s immediate problems are the kind that can be overcome. The long-term problems are yet to be known, though the harsh PvP style may be one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: UnSub</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21754</link>
		<dc:creator>UnSub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21754</guid>
		<description>Darkfall doesn&#039;t need to succeed to show the world that MMO products that target niche audiences can support a product. There are plenty of other MMOs out there that already support this - Club Penguin is estimated to bring in more dollars than LOTRO, AOC or WAR.

If you try to compete with WoW, $100m won&#039;t be enough. Which is why MMOs shouldn&#039;t attempt to go head-to-head with WoW... and they aren&#039;t, which is why more non-fantasy MMO titles are coming out, why console MMOs are getting more attention and why titles that try to grow the MMO market in new directions (not just steal market share). It&#039;s a better path to success than making &quot;WoW, only better&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darkfall doesn&#8217;t need to succeed to show the world that MMO products that target niche audiences can support a product. There are plenty of other MMOs out there that already support this &#8211; Club Penguin is estimated to bring in more dollars than LOTRO, AOC or WAR.</p>
<p>If you try to compete with WoW, $100m won&#8217;t be enough. Which is why MMOs shouldn&#8217;t attempt to go head-to-head with WoW&#8230; and they aren&#8217;t, which is why more non-fantasy MMO titles are coming out, why console MMOs are getting more attention and why titles that try to grow the MMO market in new directions (not just steal market share). It&#8217;s a better path to success than making &#8220;WoW, only better&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21753</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21753</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-22418&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-22418&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dan Gray&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
Define this ‘indy extreme hardcore’ genre, please.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Indy as in made by indies.  Extreme hardcore as in a PvP game with harsh death penalties.  (Yes, I probably should have said &quot;indy extreme hardcore PvP,&quot; but the reply was in context with the original post.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="#commentbody-22418"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-22418" rel="nofollow">Dan Gray</a> :</strong><br />
Define this ‘indy extreme hardcore’ genre, please.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Indy as in made by indies.  Extreme hardcore as in a PvP game with harsh death penalties.  (Yes, I probably should have said &#8220;indy extreme hardcore PvP,&#8221; but the reply was in context with the original post.)</p>
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		<title>By: Einherjer</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21752</link>
		<dc:creator>Einherjer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21752</guid>
		<description>@ JuJutsu

Different industries, different means of production. We are talking about Software Development here.

Speaking of pharmaceutical companies, it still happens that some drugs have to be taken off the market for they have discovered new interactions.

Speaking of Surgeons, people die all the time due to complications with the anesthetic or simply because they do not resist the shock or simply because there was a bug in the operating room.

Bankers, do we need to go there?

My point is that every industry is different. You cannot assume that the standards used in one area are feasible in another one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ JuJutsu</p>
<p>Different industries, different means of production. We are talking about Software Development here.</p>
<p>Speaking of pharmaceutical companies, it still happens that some drugs have to be taken off the market for they have discovered new interactions.</p>
<p>Speaking of Surgeons, people die all the time due to complications with the anesthetic or simply because they do not resist the shock or simply because there was a bug in the operating room.</p>
<p>Bankers, do we need to go there?</p>
<p>My point is that every industry is different. You cannot assume that the standards used in one area are feasible in another one.</p>
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		<title>By: Lurb</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/punching-babies-why-darkfall-can-should-and-must-succeed/comment-page-2/#comment-21751</link>
		<dc:creator>Lurb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3554#comment-21751</guid>
		<description>Well seems Darkfall will fail, but not because any deep problem with PvP, community or anything like that: They can&#039;t bill you if the name in your CC is longer than 15 characters.
I can stand FFA PvP, was looking forward to it, but changing my real name is too hardcore. I must be paperwork carebear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well seems Darkfall will fail, but not because any deep problem with PvP, community or anything like that: They can&#8217;t bill you if the name in your CC is longer than 15 characters.<br />
I can stand FFA PvP, was looking forward to it, but changing my real name is too hardcore. I must be paperwork carebear.</p>
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