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	<title>Comments on: Australia To Protect Us All From Us All</title>
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	<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Gaming And Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: Joshua Meadows</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25608</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Meadows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25608</guid>
		<description>What this is here is the American equivalent of proposing a bill in Congress. Like, say, this one:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/30/oklahoma-republicans-read_n_223074.html

That bill has about as much chance of going through the US Congress as this one does for becoming Australian law. Senator Conroy has been attempting to push an internet filter for &quot;child pornography&quot; for some time now and the attempt keeps failing at all junctions. None of the major ISPs, including the one that&#039;s a government-controlled monopoly, will participate in the trials for the filter any longer. Conroy&#039;s attempt at getting that passed blew up in his face, and this &quot;video games&quot; nonsense is his next attempt at saving face.

It will never become law, nothing&#039;s getting banned in Australia. It&#039;s just one wingnut politician&#039;s crackpot chest-puffing for legitimacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What this is here is the American equivalent of proposing a bill in Congress. Like, say, this one:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/30/oklahoma-republicans-read_n_223074.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/30/oklahoma-republicans-read_n_223074.html</a></p>
<p>That bill has about as much chance of going through the US Congress as this one does for becoming Australian law. Senator Conroy has been attempting to push an internet filter for &#8220;child pornography&#8221; for some time now and the attempt keeps failing at all junctions. None of the major ISPs, including the one that&#8217;s a government-controlled monopoly, will participate in the trials for the filter any longer. Conroy&#8217;s attempt at getting that passed blew up in his face, and this &#8220;video games&#8221; nonsense is his next attempt at saving face.</p>
<p>It will never become law, nothing&#8217;s getting banned in Australia. It&#8217;s just one wingnut politician&#8217;s crackpot chest-puffing for legitimacy.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Crystall</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25607</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Crystall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25607</guid>
		<description>Actually Scott, it&#039;s worse than that.

Unless there is what is deemed &quot;substantial single player content&quot;, the current Australian system refuses to rate the game. And yes, they did refuse to rate WoW on those grounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Scott, it&#8217;s worse than that.</p>
<p>Unless there is what is deemed &#8220;substantial single player content&#8221;, the current Australian system refuses to rate the game. And yes, they did refuse to rate WoW on those grounds.</p>
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		<title>By: Tateru Nino</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25606</link>
		<dc:creator>Tateru Nino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25606</guid>
		<description>Approximately 25% of MMOGs applied for and received a rating from the Australian Classifications Board. The remainder weren&#039;t refused classification... they never applied.

The CB previously stated that MMOGs *must* be games by the legal definition, otherwise they could not have (and would not have) rated those that applied. They themselves seemed surprised to discover that there were titles being sold that weren&#039;t rated.... and then suddenly they started changing their story and then refused to answer questions. There are 9 government organizations involved in ratings (not counting the ACMA), and not one of them is willing to talk about MMOGs at present.

Moreover, under current legislation, a game purchased as a digital download from overseas, does not actually require a rating at all. The rating only controls sale and rental of the item where the sale or rental itself takes place within Australian jurisdiction -- not usually the case with digital downloads... although material determined to be RC can be another kettle of herring, but that usually doesn&#039;t apply to games under the current regime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Approximately 25% of MMOGs applied for and received a rating from the Australian Classifications Board. The remainder weren&#8217;t refused classification&#8230; they never applied.</p>
<p>The CB previously stated that MMOGs *must* be games by the legal definition, otherwise they could not have (and would not have) rated those that applied. They themselves seemed surprised to discover that there were titles being sold that weren&#8217;t rated&#8230;. and then suddenly they started changing their story and then refused to answer questions. There are 9 government organizations involved in ratings (not counting the ACMA), and not one of them is willing to talk about MMOGs at present.</p>
<p>Moreover, under current legislation, a game purchased as a digital download from overseas, does not actually require a rating at all. The rating only controls sale and rental of the item where the sale or rental itself takes place within Australian jurisdiction &#8212; not usually the case with digital downloads&#8230; although material determined to be RC can be another kettle of herring, but that usually doesn&#8217;t apply to games under the current regime.</p>
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		<title>By: Ri</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25605</link>
		<dc:creator>Ri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25605</guid>
		<description>The balance of power in the Australian senate is held by a group called Family First, a conservative religious group. The Australian government needs their support to get it&#039;s legislation through, so it&#039;ll do whatever it takes to keep them happy, if that means censoring the internet, then they&#039;ll do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The balance of power in the Australian senate is held by a group called Family First, a conservative religious group. The Australian government needs their support to get it&#8217;s legislation through, so it&#8217;ll do whatever it takes to keep them happy, if that means censoring the internet, then they&#8217;ll do it.</p>
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		<title>By: UnSub</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25604</link>
		<dc:creator>UnSub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25604</guid>
		<description>To clarify:

&quot;However, the rating system in Australia is different; among other problems they don’t even *have* an “M” rating; things that would be rated “M” just don’t get sold.&quot;

We do have an M rating (we&#039;ve got an G, PG, M, MA15+ and R18+ that covers the vast majority of released content) but video games don&#039;t have an R18+ category so that if a game with &#039;objectionable content&#039; doesn&#039;t get rated MA15+, it can&#039;t be legally sold within Australia.

On top of this was the recent discovery that MMOs probably need to receive a rating before being sold in Australia - the industry took the view that since the content was being hosted in another country, it doesn&#039;t need to be rated, but that&#039;s probably not the case if it is to be sold on shelves in Australia - then the filter could really start knocking down access to such entertainment.

Of course, so little is known about the network filter other than it will protect us from anything that the Australian public doesn&#039;t know how far reaching it could be or even how it will operate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify:</p>
<p>&#8220;However, the rating system in Australia is different; among other problems they don’t even *have* an “M” rating; things that would be rated “M” just don’t get sold.&#8221;</p>
<p>We do have an M rating (we&#8217;ve got an G, PG, M, MA15+ and R18+ that covers the vast majority of released content) but video games don&#8217;t have an R18+ category so that if a game with &#8216;objectionable content&#8217; doesn&#8217;t get rated MA15+, it can&#8217;t be legally sold within Australia.</p>
<p>On top of this was the recent discovery that MMOs probably need to receive a rating before being sold in Australia &#8211; the industry took the view that since the content was being hosted in another country, it doesn&#8217;t need to be rated, but that&#8217;s probably not the case if it is to be sold on shelves in Australia &#8211; then the filter could really start knocking down access to such entertainment.</p>
<p>Of course, so little is known about the network filter other than it will protect us from anything that the Australian public doesn&#8217;t know how far reaching it could be or even how it will operate.</p>
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		<title>By: VPellen</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25603</link>
		<dc:creator>VPellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25603</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a bit concerned about this, but not too much so.

The filters in place are horribly slow, and all major telecommunication companies are boycotting it. It&#039;s entirely possible that this is simply lip service for the &quot;think of the children&quot; crowd.

If, on the other hand, our government feels it reasonable to cripple the speed of the internet (and several industries in the process) in the middle of a recession, then hey, I hear England is a nice place to live; Lots of rain!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit concerned about this, but not too much so.</p>
<p>The filters in place are horribly slow, and all major telecommunication companies are boycotting it. It&#8217;s entirely possible that this is simply lip service for the &#8220;think of the children&#8221; crowd.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, our government feels it reasonable to cripple the speed of the internet (and several industries in the process) in the middle of a recession, then hey, I hear England is a nice place to live; Lots of rain!</p>
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		<title>By: neispace</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25602</link>
		<dc:creator>neispace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25602</guid>
		<description>TPRjones: Censorship exists. It&#039;s not fascist to have official boundaries for culturally unacceptable behavior in the public square. Everyone is focused on censorship in the negative because of overreaction-this australian case is one. But we do censor things already through law when its deemed harmful: we don&#039;t allow cigarette ads targeted towards children for example.

I&#039;m not talking legitimate differences of opinion with this, I&#039;m talking things which have a real, harmful impact on people individually or in society .

Iconic:

No idea. Usually when people move to do this its driven by a series of incidents like school violence, and fades when the memory of it does.

Fatbutt:

Unfortunately you can&#039;t. Unless you supervise them 24-7 while they use the internet, it&#039;s just too easy to bypass them. It&#039;s just clicking a toggle button or searching for a specific term. You even get accidental porn in the course of normal searching.

Plus, it&#039;s kind of unfair to ask parents to better raise their children in a culture which often has only one parent doing the actual raising.

Yunk:

usually the stuff censored isn&#039;t so much about ideas or discussions. I&#039;m against censoring of ideas, but it&#039;s hard to find the idea behind 2 girls 1 cup that is worth protecting or that will positively affect the future. Some things are just negative impact pure and simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TPRjones: Censorship exists. It&#8217;s not fascist to have official boundaries for culturally unacceptable behavior in the public square. Everyone is focused on censorship in the negative because of overreaction-this australian case is one. But we do censor things already through law when its deemed harmful: we don&#8217;t allow cigarette ads targeted towards children for example.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not talking legitimate differences of opinion with this, I&#8217;m talking things which have a real, harmful impact on people individually or in society .</p>
<p>Iconic:</p>
<p>No idea. Usually when people move to do this its driven by a series of incidents like school violence, and fades when the memory of it does.</p>
<p>Fatbutt:</p>
<p>Unfortunately you can&#8217;t. Unless you supervise them 24-7 while they use the internet, it&#8217;s just too easy to bypass them. It&#8217;s just clicking a toggle button or searching for a specific term. You even get accidental porn in the course of normal searching.</p>
<p>Plus, it&#8217;s kind of unfair to ask parents to better raise their children in a culture which often has only one parent doing the actual raising.</p>
<p>Yunk:</p>
<p>usually the stuff censored isn&#8217;t so much about ideas or discussions. I&#8217;m against censoring of ideas, but it&#8217;s hard to find the idea behind 2 girls 1 cup that is worth protecting or that will positively affect the future. Some things are just negative impact pure and simple.</p>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25601</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25601</guid>
		<description>I thought Australia didn&#039;t do this sort of thing. Or is it like Europe where all the sexual content you want is fine but no violence or saying mean things about ethnic groups.

“You don’t have to be puritan to think some censorship is healthy for society in general.”
no you just have to think one of the following:
1. you can predict the future and know what sort of discussions and ideas will positively impact the future and what will not
2. you are better than your neighbors

It&#039;s not about puritanism, it&#039;s not left or right. It&#039;s much more stasist vs dynamist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought Australia didn&#8217;t do this sort of thing. Or is it like Europe where all the sexual content you want is fine but no violence or saying mean things about ethnic groups.</p>
<p>“You don’t have to be puritan to think some censorship is healthy for society in general.”<br />
no you just have to think one of the following:<br />
1. you can predict the future and know what sort of discussions and ideas will positively impact the future and what will not<br />
2. you are better than your neighbors</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not about puritanism, it&#8217;s not left or right. It&#8217;s much more stasist vs dynamist.</p>
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		<title>By: Iconic</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25600</link>
		<dc:creator>Iconic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25600</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-29464&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@neispace &lt;/a&gt;

I understand that it&#039;s more a matter of &quot;where we draw the line&quot; than whether there is a line drawn.  My point is:

Australia is drawing the line well short of where most &quot;western&quot; nations draw it.  Is there a particular cultural reason for that?

I&#039;m not here to debate the morality of sex or violence.  I&#039;m just curious why Australia seems more publicly offended by it than other nations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-29464" rel="nofollow">@neispace </a></p>
<p>I understand that it&#8217;s more a matter of &#8220;where we draw the line&#8221; than whether there is a line drawn.  My point is:</p>
<p>Australia is drawing the line well short of where most &#8220;western&#8221; nations draw it.  Is there a particular cultural reason for that?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not here to debate the morality of sex or violence.  I&#8217;m just curious why Australia seems more publicly offended by it than other nations.</p>
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		<title>By: fatbutt</title>
		<link>http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/comment-page-1/#comment-25599</link>
		<dc:creator>fatbutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/06/25/australia-to-protect-us-all-from-us-all/#comment-25599</guid>
		<description>Would censoring google/youtube really lead to a healthier society, in a way that can&#039;t be reached by better parenting? Take care of your kids, people!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would censoring google/youtube really lead to a healthier society, in a way that can&#8217;t be reached by better parenting? Take care of your kids, people!</p>
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