I Demand You Listen To Me

what you find here is my own opinion only and not that of my employers. kindly do not blame them for my ravings.

One of the reasons I haven’t been writing blog entries in almost 2 years is that, well, for the past 6 months you would have to be literally insane to want to write about gaming. Because if you did, well.



When I’m feeling charitable, I like to think of the sea lions of Gamergate as inherently reasonable people who simply come at discussion from a different perspective. Call it Generation Chan – where everything is shouted at maximum volume, and from that a consensus chaotically emerges, in the most democratic of senses, and if you can’t handle a little chaos then get out because clearly your nethers are too tender for these pants. Jay “A Man in Black” Allen put it best here:

Anon culture is a decentralized echo chamber, but one that can produce interesting things through the work of many hands. Anons hold that whatever consensus emerges is the right one as an article of faith, even if that consensus becomes more and more toxic over time. One example of how hate can concentrate is 4chan’s /pol/ sub-board. Ostensibly for discussing politics and current events, it is now dominated by white supremacists. This toxicity isn’t necessarily contained to one board: usually-ironic, sometimes-not homophobia, racism, and antisemitism are common to almost all anonymous imageboards.

And Gamergate shares that toxic narrative – most obviously in how it is inherently hypocritical at its core. Those who disagree with them politically must be driven from the Internet (such as seen in “Operation Disrespectful Nod“, itself originating from a meme mocking someone who tried to be polite to a target of Gamergate’s hatred), while every comment from someone seen as an ally must be allowed, and any moderation of this is censorship (such as Anita Sarkeesian’s refusal to allow comments on her Youtube videos, which is seen by Gamergaters as fear of engagement and by normal people as a recognition of cause and effect.)

I bring this up because we now see the advent of Gamergate’s latest hero, Mark Kern, who apparently is being held in a black site by the CIA.

Well… wait… I got all these from Kern’s timeline. Maybe he’s not being held captive by the Islamic State after all.

Wow. It’s almost like someone familiar with social media is inciting a ready-made mob! What could prompt this awesome display of hashtag power? What can all this be about? Well…

That’s not entirely correct, (and France is not particularly a place denizens of /pol/ want to look to for their anti-Semitic meme publication needs) but regardless; what this is really about?

Well, you see, it’s about Law and Order: Special Victims Unit. Yes, really.

They apparently did a Gamergate-themed episode, which was about as weirdly stupid as you’d expect. Mark Kern was offended by it (so much so, in fact, he made a petition), and laid the blame for this at the foot of the gaming media for, well, doing their jobs.


The best response to this was from Cara Ellison:

VG24/7 published an article that basically said the same, just using more/less profane words.

You’re wrong, I’m afraid, Mr Kern. Your view makes no sense. As anyone who’s had anything to do with Gamergate will know, apportioning blame here is as constructive as sieving cheese. The issues surrounding Gamergate made it to the mainstream because it’s a ridiculous story about weird, dangerous sexists and the women they target. Not because Kotaku wrote about it.

Well, you’d think that would about do it – except that Kern demands the right of response – his honor has been tarnished by VIDEOGAME JOURNALISTS and he has to say something about it! So, you know, he went to, spent about 5 minutes filling out a form, and then said his piece, which he then promoted on Twitter as his response to what VG24/7 said. Much like, you know, what I’m doing right now.

Oh wait, no, I’m wrong, he went full Gamergate and decried VG24/7 for not giving him the chance to write a response ON THEIR SITE. Because you see, they wrote something about him which he disagreed, and if they don’t publish his response that’s CENSORSHIP, and didn’t you know that he personally is responsible for Diablo 2 AND Starcraft 2 AND World of Warcraft? VANILLA WORLD OF WARCRAFT, MOTHERFUCKER, NOT THAT PANSY-ASSED CASUAL CRAP BLIZZARD DOES NOWADAYS, HE’S MARK MOTHERFUCKING KERN AND YOU WILL RESPECT HIS SOCIAL NETWORK REACH AND HIS IMPECCABLE RESUME AND YOU WILL GIVE HIM THE HONOR OF RESPONDING TO YOUR READERS!

You see, the world doesn’t work that way, something you’d think a fully functioning adult like Mark Kern would understand. The media does not have the obligation to post your rebuttal. And trust me, if they did, I have about 50 articles lined up ready to post on right now. Freedom of speech is not a business rule, it is a constitutional imperative; he is free to, as he is doing now, use his fairly large megaphone to make everyone understand how offended he is that games journalists write about things. Gaming journalists being what they are, this will raise such a hullaballo that at some point some fairly notable site (probably the Escapist, rapidly becoming the web’s number one source for Based News) will interview Kern about his thoughts. Maybe in person, he’s fairly important, he could fly out to their offices and they can film an in-person interview.

Or maybe he’ll just take the bus over.

(Edit 2/26 8:45A – comments on this post disabled temporarily because it’s a busy day at work and I don’t have time to babysit the KotakuInAction RESPECTFUL COMMENTARY incoming. Will be turned on this evening. Thanks!)

(Edit 2.26 8:00P – comments are back open. Feel free to tell me how horribad a person I am and how I got fired from every job I ever had!)

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  1. “Oh wait, no, I’m wrong, he went full GamerGate and decried VG24/7 for
    not giving him the chance to write a response ON THEIR SITE.”

    THIS. This is GamerGate in a nutshell. The ability to start *their own sites*, but no, they spend all day & night pissing and moaning and demanding platforms on /other people’s sites/.

    Bravo on calling this ridiculous shit from Kern out. [photo: Mark on twitter]

  2. Here’s an idea:
    VG247 will publish his rebuttal. But only if every “Anti” ever talked about by GG also gets to write a rebuttal, which are then published on Techraptr, The Ralph Report, Reaxxion, Breitbart… oh, and 20-minute (minimum!) videos on the channels of Mundane Matt, Sargon, Total Biscuit and basically every other GG-youtuber.

    Deal? 😀

    • Deal. Part of the contempt I have for them is because of the fact the respond to criticism with claims of sexism. I’d love to see actual honest rebuttals that don’t use the gender card.

      • Well, aside from the fact a lot of the criticism is BECAUSE of sexism in the responses (note that Leigh Alexander has gotten a ton more flack for her tweets about my piece than, you know, the person who ACTUALLY WROTE IT), there is plenty of toxicity in the GG movement that has nothing to do with sexism. Such as the inherent hypocrisy (which I noted in this piece) of decrying any attempt to moderate any comment on an article by a GGer while GGers organize campaigns with the express purpose of driving publications with a political view they disagree with out of business. But of course, that’s different, right? because of REASONS.

        • It is different. One is censorship, the other is consumer activism. Moderating your comments of any dissenting views only makes it look like you can’t defend your position.

          I’m also unaware of any response alexander received due to your article, but I feel there is more to the situation than that. As for you not getting much feedback from it, let’s face it. This is a blog. Indistinguishable from someones wordpress or tumblr post.

          • It is not censorship. If I hit a switch and shut off comments after making this post, you are not censored. I simply closed off this avenue for you to speak. You have MANY others. I am not obligated to give you a platform to lecture me. I do so for my own reasons.

            I am aware of what blogs are. If you look over to your left, I’ve been doing this a while. You really don’t have to explain that part.

          • You already did that, then re-enabled them. Shutting off comments is one thing, when you spoke of moderation I interpreted that as deleting comments. You have no obligation to hold a platform for people to talk, I agree. I only think it’s censorship when you delete certain comments that aren’t in violation of the ToS because you don’t like what’s being said. To the left is a CNN article. I’m replying in the disqus client.

          • I can delete comments because I don’t think they use enough vowels. That isn’t censorship. Again, you have MANY other places to speak. I have no obligation to host people who disagree with me. I choose to do so, because I enjoy being challenged and contrary to apparent belief I don’t choose to live in echo chambers, but there is no OBLIGATION for me to provide that. It is my choice. Much as you are free to make comments, I am free to host them or not, on a piecemeal basis or not, as per my prerogative. And you are thus free to visit this blog (or any other site) or not, based on that.

            Thus is freedom.

          • I already said you’re not obligated to provide it. Who are you arguing against? You can absolutely choose to delete comments. I’m also free to consider that censorship. If something is banned in one country but freely available in another, it doesn’t make it any less censorship. Here the country being this site, and the authority deciding what will be allowed or not is you.

            When insisting that targeting the advertisers of a site is censorship, I could use the very same logic you are on that. Nothing’s stopping the writers from writing somewhere else, so of course it’s not censorship! What direction do you want to go with this thought process?

          • And what if a mob follows such a person everywhere they go online, subjecting them to endless streams of threats and abuse until they shut up and go away forever? Is that censorship on a level at least as horrific as moderating a comment section?

          • Interesting, that’s currently what’s happening to thousands of people who never did anything like that. Someone even told my eight year old son on facebook they were going to kill his father. I’m sure that’s acceptable though right? Because according to others I’m bigoted.

          • Of course it’s not acceptable, and I’m sorry someone did that to you and I hope whoever did it is found out and properly punished for it.

            Though you’re probably bullshitting me. Again.

          • Over my kid? I don’t think so. Thanks for your concern. I did file a police report but haven’t heard anything about it in several weeks. Law enforcement needs to learn how to operate in the digital age. I hope anyone who made any threats during this gets charged.

          • Then we agree on that at least. I hope your kid is alright.

          • But it’s not censorship, and you are incorrect because you misunderstand the definition of what the word means. Scott repeatedly explained the difference, yet you seem to not understand. In addition, you are conflating wildly different things, a gaming website cannot be compared to a country except in the broadest sense that they are both “things” so your logic there is completely unsound.

            You sound as though you have no understand of what you’re writing. Your grasp of comparison is quite lackadaisical, YOU are the one who needs to chose a direction because your train of thought has derailed. Feel free to target advertisers, but don’t pretend that its some noble endeavor, its a group attempting to get something they don’t like, shut down. If that’s your prerogative, then fine, but don’t make false equivalences about those writers “from writing somewhere else”

          • Your thoughts on my analogy doesn’t concern me. He gave his opinion on why he doesn’t believe it is censorship. I gave mine why I believe that it is. The ACLU describes censorship as:

            Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are “offensive,” happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others. Censorship can be carried out by the government as well as private pressure groups. Censorship by the government is unconstitutional.

            I believe deleting comments that you disagree with the message of to be a case of that. I understand you have a different view, but that doesn’t make one person right and the other wrong. I give scott credit for allowing discussion here.

          • ” You can absolutely choose to delete comments. I’m also free to consider that censorship.”

            Yes, you are, but you’d still be wrong.

          • That’s the issue with arguing on the internet. No one is willing to simply agree to disagree. I don’t care if you think it’s wrong.

          • That’s fine, you don’t have to.

            And yes, you *are* entitled to your opinion, and you are also entitled to be wrong.

      • Maybe “journalists” should stop being abusive assholes calling their audience anything from misogynists, basement dwellers, parasites, worse than ISIS, subhumans, terrorists or worse because they’ve been called out on their bullshit leading to said SVU episode “ripped straight from the headlines”:

        And actually show some respect and go off of the basic assumption that they can think for themselves and might have some points worth discussing and we will see what happens? I’m certainly not going to show any respect to someone like this, since they haven’t earned any. Especially when they pretend to represent gamers and try to mould and dictate what the gaming industry is “supposed to be”. There’s only so much slander I’m going to take for daring to enjoy certain games.

        • Proof of journalists calling their *audience* “misogynists, basement dwellers, parasites, worse than ISIS, subhumans, terrorists”? Unless you are just putting words together for effect, of course.

          • Really you haven’t been paying much attention.

          • I’ve seen journalists call bigots what they are, not their audience (which is especially ridiculous in case of Gamasutra, which is a site for game developers). My point is, people still going about a bunch of articles they misunderstood are such disingenuous drama llamas.

        • I googled three of those headlines at random and none of them were from gaming websites, so that’s kind of a poor rebuttal.

          Also, are you saying that the SVU episode was journalists’ fault because they reported on things that happened? That’s a bit silly. It’s the job of the news media to report on things that happen. You wouldn’t respond to a headline that read “Shooting kills three in local diner” by saying, “Oh my god, this newspaper just killed three people!”

          • Yes, I’m saying it’s the “journalists” fault for inciting moral panic, which is quite antitethical to trying to get more women into the gaming industry, by the way:
            Terror, death, “virtual rape”, “revenge porn”, “fleeing homes”, abuse, misogyny, hate mobs… you’d think either the KKK had resurrected or ISIS has managed to land in the US.
            Yet, from all that has happened so far, was anyone hurt or in any way attacked? Did anyone get arrested, prosecuted or indicted for anything? I’m not sure what’s supposed to have happened to merit all of that. The two people that were apparently identified in relation to any sort of threatening behaviour seem to have been a Brazilian journalist that everybody forgot about rather quick and a self-professed YouTube troll/comedian. It’s been a 6 month media storm dragging the entire gaming industry and gamers at large through shit, and for what?

          • To end a culture where a woman can get hundreds of death threats a week, for years, just for criticizing games from a feminist perspective. And people will say that that is normal, or acceptable in anyway.

            To end a culture where a woman can be terrorized by a hateful mob for months because her vengeful ex decided that gamers could be his personal army.

            To create a culture where everyone feels accepted, and valued and safe, regardless of their race, their gender, or whether they are a “true gamer” or just a filthy casual who likes to play games on their Iphone.

            To allow games to grow as a medium free of appealing to the base desires of Roosh V. fans like yourself. To allow developers to truly take risks. To make a game, that is perhaps not about an angry 30 year old marine with a shaved head shooting people. To tell new stories, maybe non-violent stories, maybe stories from a new perspective. To move that kind of storytelling from outside of the fringe of the gaming world and to allow the medium to flurish, free of the tyranny of publishers who are too afraid to take risks and a vocal minority of fans who react violently (literally violently) to any risk.

            And again, you cannot blame the media for simply representing the truth as it happened. To do otherwise would be incredibly (wait for it) unethical.

            But hey, if you don’t like it, you can always go back to Reaxxion. I promise they will never challenge you in any way or make you think about how you or videogames might be improved. They’ll pander to you to your hearts content.

          • You do realize that the amount of harassment that these women get in a week is FAR LESS than the harassment than Justin Beiber gets in one hour, right?

          • Oh boy, the Justin Bieber comparison again. Look, comparing the threats Gamergate’s targets get to the threats celebrities like Justin Bieber get are wrong for three reasons.

            1) It assumes that the amount of threats celebrities receive on a regular basis are okay.

            2) It assumes that any amount of threats are okay.

            3) It assumes that people becoming famous based on the threats they receive retroactively makes the previous harassment and all future harassment okay.

            Most of these women were not public figures. They had minimal exposure until they became targets of vicious hate campaigns that gained them notoriety. Justin Bieber’s singing talent was not discovered by accident while hiding out from harassers threatening to take his life. Those threats came afterwards. These were not women looking for notoriety, they were dragged into the spotlight against their will by violent trolls and misogynists. What you’re suggesting is that the harassment and threatening of anyone is okay as long as you do enough of it to make them a minor celebrity in certain circles. That line of thinking is garbage, for the three reasons stated above.

            What’s happening to these women is not okay. The suffering that is being inflicted upon these women by Gamergate is not okay. Your attempt to justify and defend the suffering inflicted upon these women is not okay. I’m tired of hearing all these justifications for harassment and threats. This behavior needs to stop. Gamergate needs to end. These women need to be allowed to return to their lives. Gamers need to grow up and take accountability for their actions rather than laying the blame on the media for reporting on their actions. The biggest ethics breach here isn’t how the games media has portrayed Gamergate, but the overall lack of coverage. Truly shameful that such a disgusting event can go on right under their noses and many of them still continue to look the other way, when these women still cannot return to their homes.

          • It’s not meant to “excuse” anything, it’s just to show that this shit happens to everyone in the limelight, you don’t even have to actually DO anything controversial, just exist like “Alex from Target” and some people will wish you dead.




            And if you think that this is somehow reserved to “hardcore gaming” see for instance “Kim Kardashian Receives Death Threats Over Her Stupid Broken Game!”:

            It happens, even in games or at school or similar people (often even friends) will sometimes say that they’ll “kill you” for something you did, rarely if ever is this meant to be taken literally and if you go after the statistics it’s more likely that you’ll be hit by lightning (since this actually happens, and you can actually find articles showing this happened) than get harmed by Twitter threats (nobody has ever been able to show me a single instance of a Twitter “threat” leading to anything physical or serious in the technology or gaming industry).

            I’m not doing these things, I think they’re immature, but misrepresenting the position of hundreds of thousands of people or even millions of them (when talking about gaming as a whole) to that a few dozen ragers at the most on Twitter who so far seem ultimately harmless would be akin to misrepresenting the entire movie industry because of what this guy did:

            Also, holy shit “women cannot return to their homes”, they weren’t ever out of their homes and they adore milking this shit for sweet Patreon cash and press coverage. They love said limelight, Anita herself used the “misogynist YouTube comments by horrible gamers” tactic after she couldn’t get exposure of her KickStarter based on merit about two weeks into the campaign to get said coverage from a majority of gaming publications and x5 cash modifier to the raised amount. There’s people that will break the law and do much worse than that for a few thousand and you don’t believe that “these women” (Anita specifically was previously involved with handwriting classes and teleseminars) might misrepresent something for $150,000+ and $4000 monthly Patreon wages from gullible idiots?

          • So what you’re saying is that the problem is even bigger than we’re letting on? And that he need to work even harder to stamp this harassment out?

            You did it, GG! You’re getting your wish as we speak. Just ask the CEO of Twitter about that.

          • If you’re on the internet, you’re getting threats, that simple. Take away anonymity and it gets worse, because then people can find you easier to make threats.

            Anyone who’s a public figure, regardless of how they got there, gets threats. It’s been that way since way before the internet. Harassment? Heckling? Yeah, that’s existed since before the internet was a thing. Benjamin Franklin, if he were alive today, would have been one of the worst internet trolls of all time. Seriously, people back in the day loathed seeing him write stuff, because he was a notorious prankster who was incredibly mean to everyone. And you don’t think that politicians don’t get threats? How about owners and coaches and players in professional sports? They’re likely to get threats as well. Ever watch “celebrities read twitter posts about themselves” from one of the late night shows? Ever see how vile that is?

            Mmhmm… GamerGate causes all of this, suuure. What about Boogie? His wife was threatened because he was neutral. What about LianaK? She got doxed and her kids were shown to her with an implicit threat “stop talking about GamerGate or else”. What about Milo? He got a freaking knife mailed to him. You sure like to say that GamerGate is doing bad things, but you don’t want to admit that people who are part of GamerGate have had bad shit happen to them. In fact, not too long ago, one of the people on GamerGhazi had to ask the people there to stop sending her doxing information about GamerGate supporters, and she’s STILL getting it. Hmm… GamerGate’s the real villain, huh?

            So, take your self-righteous attitude and shove it, while there are probably a few extremists in GamerGate who are doing harassing, it’s FAR more likely it’s unrelated 3rd Party trolls who are attacking these people.

          • That’s a great point. It’s a known historical fact that Franklin used carrier pigeons to send anonymous rape threats to Alexander Hamilton. More cool facts like these can be found in my upcoming book “A Compendium of Bullshit I Use to Justify Being An Asshole On the Internet”.

          • I suggest you actually do research, boyo. I didn’t make anything up. Franklin was a known prankster that constantly tricked people with his writings. When he was 16, he wrote letters in the papers that caused people to think he was a woman who was single and got marriage proposals from the men who read them.

          • No, you’re projecting. What that statement implies is that these people aren’t being harassed on the basis of their gender.

            Also, Brianna Wu has sock puppet accounts she harasses herself from so….

          • [citation_needed]
            And please give me a trustworty citation, not some shitty jpg from /pol/ whining about Kulturbolschewismus.

          • The people harassing Justin Beiber are stupid assholes who probably belong inside a jail cell too.

            What, did you think everyone would go “oh, well, I though I disliked harassment but now that I hear Justin Beiber gets it too, I dunno, maybe it’s all good…”?

          • Not at all, just pointing out that everyone and their grandmother gets harassed online. Some people, however, are thick-skinned enough to go “meh, just people blowing smoke” instead of crying to the authorities over everything.

          • Oh. So what you’re saying is that… the women who got doxed and driven from their homes by specific death threats, they’re just… whiny, emotional, and deserve to be mocked?
            Because it sure sounds like it.

          • I don’t know, did he? Gaters are uncharacteristically ready to believe what the guy from Breitbart has to say. Odd since they’re so skeptical of their crushes- er, I mean Who? But the guy who literally works for an organization with a long, long history of telling blatant lies and running hoaxes, him I think he can trust.

            If Milo can show us something like this:
            I’ll be happy to condemn those harassing him and anyone egging such people on. But, I mean, the man is, again I must stress literally is, a professional liar. That’s what it means to work for Breitbart.

          • Well, Brianna Wu for one was never “driven from her home”. In that interview she did where she said she was at a hotel, she was actually at home. People found old pictures from her home that she had posted, and the decor and everything was exactly the same as in the “hotel room” in the tv interview.

            Most likely she used sockpuppet accounts to threaten and harass herself, as she was caught in the act doing on Steam, where she forgot to switch accounts before posting an inflammatory post about herself.

          • Oh sure. And some people spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a security staff and media handlers to protect themselves from such threats and abuse. Can you guess which people I’m talking about? HINT: not any Literally Who.

          • Superb analogy! Almost as good as the one that compares Zoe Quinn to Tiger Woods.

            …The multi-million dollar sports superstar vs …an indie developer.

            Which is not to say harassment is *right*, even when directed at the Beibs, just that I imagine the A-listers have things in place (what with the funds and staff at their disposal) to combat the negative side of celebrity stardom. (I’m almost certain he has security, for starters)

            Someone who made a free game about depression, someone posting videos analysing tropes in video games, someone writing about games (or whoever else Gamergate decide to hate on that day) are not superstars or celebrities. They have not been exposed to the general public or are famous in the same way. They’re ordinary people with a hate mob sic’d on them.

          • I sincerely doubt that they’re the only two people to be identified as shit-heads and it takes more than six months to build a case. I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re reading about Gator-related stuff going to trial a year, two years from now.

          • This Jace Connors guy is almost definitely going to trial. So Is Benjamin Biddix, the gator head of Baphomet.

          • Baphomet? Oh, are you talking about the group that has been DOXXING GAMERGATE SUPPORTERS FOR MONTHS AND POSTING ADDRESSES, PHONE NUMBERS AND CREDIT CARD NUMBERS OF THEIR FAMILIES AND RELATIVES ONLINE? Yeah, real GamerGate supporters they are…

          • “How dare the press report on things that happen! That’s unethical!”

          • LOL please, if you don’t think the gaming press started that fucking narrative I don’t know what you’re smoking.

        • Hey, actually it was Devin Faraci who called you worse than ISIS. He’s not a games Journalist. Also, He explicitly said “The Anti-Quinn People” So unless you are one of those shit eating parasites who attacked Zoe Quinn, you’re all cool, man.

          But this reveals a deeper problem with your posts, non games journalists have been talking about gamergate since it started, because gamergate is weird and gross and normal people are rightly disgusted by it. If you don’t want people treating you like monsters, maybe stop acting like monsters.

          • I’m afraid Mr. Derp here isn’t a simple consumer. Here’s his comments from Roosh V’s Reaxxion and Breitbart, respectively:

            “You don’t know the half of it… they’re actively promoting morbid obesity or bulimia as “realistic”, the one of the left is from an article from Anthony “Cuck” Burch talking about “diversity” and the one on the right from RPS about Skullgirls:

            “‘straight white male culture’
            Most people just refer to it as ‘culture’.”

          • Hahahahahahaha. I’ve never met a gamergater that didn’t reveal himself to be a hateful MRA in under 10 minutes, and this person is no exception.

            Hey, Mr. Derp? Those sites want you as their audience, please leave other, respectable places alone and stay on Reaxxion, where you are actually desired.

          • I’ve met some, but it was a couple of months ago, when there were moderates who got on a ride thinking it’s really about ethics.

          • And I’ve never met an Anti-GGer who didn’t reveal themselves to be incredibly ignorant, sexist and racist in 10 seconds.

            Thank you and good night!

          • And this one frequents The Ralph Retort in addition to Reaxxion and Breitbart. What a purveyor of Ethical Journalism™!

          • I’ve met one, but he seems to be literally crazy. He also cried about how he can’t release his shitty flash game because the SJWs will hunt him down and ruin his life.

          • “‘straight while male culture’ Most people just refer to it as culture.”

            Zomg, that almost sounds like a realisation. Just needs to take the last step there…and recognize how that’s A BAD THING.

          • And he didn’t even call them “worse than ISIS”. His exact words were “At this point, I have more respect for ISIS than for the anti-Quinn people”.
            Which was entirely warranted. He said that in August, before “GamerGate” was even coined – just after Quinn had to leave her home due to death threats.

          • So people who rape, kill and plunder, behead BABIES because of their parents’ religion, crucify Christians, gangrape 11 year old girls until they die, have destroyed an entire country, destabilized an entire region of the world, committed two acts of terrorism in Europe, assassinated Jews in France and Denmark and are in the process of committing a genocide of the Kurds are worth more respect than people who ALLEGEDLY said mean things on the internet?

            If you actually believe that, you’re a despicable person without a shred of decency.

        • Have you ever fucking read the comment section on, well, anything written on a game site? 90% of it is trash, and if it’s a woman writer expressing an opinion a straight white dude doesn’t wanna hear? HOOOO BOY!

          So don’t give me that ‘poor is me, they documented the exact stuff we did and it rightfully made people sick’ bullshit. No one outside your little echo chamber cares if your feelings were hurt by showing the world your actual words & actions.

          • Nice mincing of words there, boyo. No. I said an opinion that a straight white dude doesn’t want to hear. I didn’t say “ALL straight white dudes”. It’s not my fault that it’s predominately them that I receive harassment from.

          • Hashtag feminist? LOLOL

            Sweetie. You have zero idea about anything. Go back to your echo chamber and jerk your buddies off some more.

    • If you aren’t one of the abusers Ellison talks about, why worry then? There are millions of gamers and some of them are jerks – why do you feel you have to protect said jerks instead of, I don’t know, just saying “I’m not with them”?

          • Why can’t you write good articles about gaming, Lum? Jon Snow much prefers the stylings of Milo Yianoppoulos when it comes to informative, insightful articles on gaming. I mean, surely the man’s DA:I review in which he takes two paragraphs to spew slurs at lesbians, should be a template to us all. And everyone knows that the whole world must cater to the narrow desires of gaters; anything less would be unethical!

      • Well there’s the rub now isn’t it? Say the entirety of gamergate is made up of the abusers, tell those that aren’t they need to leave a hashtag that was formed so our collective voices would be heard. Unfortunately, I don’t care about smears so that rhetoric falls on deaf ears and I’ll never cave to the order to “Do ‘x’, or we’ll call you ‘y'”

          • I’ll let you pretend that actually makes any sense.

            Our battle for ethical reform has nothing to do with pissants like you or the blogger who wrote this piece. Your opinion of it means less than nothing to me.

          • Here’s a hint: people don’t usually listen to suggestions from anonymous hate mobs.

          • Good thing we’re not. It helps to step out of your echo chamber and see the things we actually discuss.

        • Actually, the entirety of gamergate is made up of abusers, because gamergate as a cause was created for abuse. Your collective voice choose to say “Those feminists sluts need to leave gaming or we will never give them a moments piece,” so people have rightly condemned you. Even the ones who do not actively participate in bigotry and abuse (which if such a creature exists I have not seen it) are guilty of aiding and perpetuating the ones that do. The loudest voices in gamergate are always the most abusive

          “Do ‘X’ or we’ll call you “y” is not an order, it is simple cause and affect. Be a misogynistic abuser and people will call you a misogynistic abuser. What you are demanding is to be able to do whatever you want, say any bigoted or insane thing you want, hurt whoever you want, and face no consequences, not even the incredibly mild consequence of people having a low opinion of you. Well sorry, nobody is obligated to like you, and guess what? They don’t.

          • Our collective voices chose to say that eh? Please point me to anywhere on kotakuinaction where that is said or even implied. I also don’t say anything bigoted or hateful. At most I say gender is irrelevant in gaming. I’ve been playing with all races and genders since the 90s. All of a sudden saying somehow we reject women in gaming is just contributing to a false moral panic that actually will scare women from the industry.


            How about this Lovely comment from gamergate hero Milo Yiannopolis? Keep in mind that this was written as a response to his totally unfounded and transphobic hitpiece against Brianna Wu, which the the mods of Kotakuinaction thought was so valuable that they actually stickied it. Remember that Brianna Wu is not a journalist, and therefore could not have committed any ethical infractions. She is simply an outspoken feminist videogame developer that Gamergate has decided to drive from the industry.

          • It wasn’t stickied because it was valuable, it was stickied to keep all discussion of the article in one place. Also disliking a female doesn’t mean disliking all females, hence it’s not misogynistic. I also dislike chris brown, that doesn’t make me a racist. You also seem to forget that she was the one that started attacking us. You call us misogynists for defending ourselves from her accusations and then hold her up as a victim? Your bias couldn’t be more obvious.

            We are also not doing anything to ‘drive her from the industry’ that’s an absurd accusation. Precisely how would we go about doing that? We haven’t called for any boycotts of her game or anything of the sort, which is better than the antis have done by attempting to blacklist jennifer dawe.

            You also missed the part where we called him out on it being a shitty article and his response to that

          • What boycotts? You mean when gators don’t buy the game they didn’t want to buy in the first place? Or when they mass-downvote it on Steam Greenlight, which is a thing that happened?

          • Mass downvote on greenlight? You are aware that doesn’t do anything right?

          • Why do it then? Because pointless brigading is something GG is the best at?

          • We didn’t? There are millions of people on steam. I never even went to the greenlight page. Nor did I for roguestars game.

          • I don’t call Retweeting a joking meme as an attack, certainly not one that warrants months of death threats and harassment. The fact that you do, is perhaps the central problem of gamergate. That’s all she did, she didn’t even make the tweet herself, and you guys deceided to make her public enemy number 3 (behind Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian on your official literally who public enemy rankings).

            But really that was just an example that I found in five minutes. I’m sure if you delve deep into KiA or 8chan (although you risk getting put on an fbi watchlist if you go there) you can find much much more anti-feminist or hysterically sexist sentiment. Remember this bizarre meme?


            Either way, challenge accepted and accomplished.

          • Where did I say it was worthy of death threats? Where did I defend such threats? I was just pointing out she inserted herself into the situation in the first place. Now we’re misogynistic for disliking wu, who said we were misogynists for criticizing grayson and quinn. You look for evidence to reinforce your beliefs and latch onto whatever you can.

            as for the fbi watchlist, keep thinking that. Actual authorities have better things to do then get put people on a watch list for what is essentially a flame war. You didn’t accomplish anything.

            As for that meme, there are plenty of males with dyed hair as well (yes neon as well) so saying it’s somehow sexist is disingenuous.

            You’re also forgetting the puppet account she made on twitter, as well as the memes she did indeed create.

          • “Criticizing”? Are you familiar with the words “burgers&fries”? This is not criticizing:

          • What does an irc chatroom with 21 people in it called #quinnspiracy have to do with anything? There’s no mention of burgersandfries on there. What precisely is it you’re trying to say is represented there?

          • Those are the roots of GG, and they didn’t go anywhere, so when you are talking about “criticizing”, you are being disingenuous at best.

          • You seriously think 21 people are the ‘roots’ of gg? This has been building up for years. It just got Streisand to hell with the nuking of totalbiscuits thread as well as the discussion being censored all over the internet. The people in that chatroom had fuck all to do with gamergate getting going. It was going to happen regardless.

          • You are right, it was going to happen, but it doesn’t have much to do with ethics in gamer journalism.

          • It has everything to do with that. mocking sjw’s is just our entertainment.

          • Yes. It is. The Quinnspiracy was the root of GG, with some guy posting some conspiracy video based on the marvellous unbiased source of an ex-boyfriend’s blog, which was picked up by Adam Baldwin who dubbed it “#gamergate”.

            It’s where your hash tag comes from.

            Way before totalbiscuit threw his (ridiculous) hat into the ring in support of GG. (Back then he was still attempting to be perceived as ‘moderate’, I believe).

          • the ‘roots’ of gamergate go back years. Assuming some shitty little indy dev is responsible for thousands of people coming together to revolt against gaming websites is hilarious.

          • Not in the way you suppose. A dubious and cozy relationship between devs and the press go back years; dorito gate goes back years. Those things were not the impetus for GG. Eron Gjoni’s blogpost was.

            And *no*, (god you can’t even resist the jab of “shitty little” can you, typical) Zoe Quinn is not responsible for this. Where would you take that from what I’ve said? She’s not responsible for any of this. It’s hardly her fault.

            It’s Gjoni’s fault, the people who wilfully stoked the flames and pursued harassing Quinn’s fault and the entirely credulous people who’re taken in by it.

          • depression quest was poorly written, misrepresented chronic depression, and exploited the suicide of robin williams. Yes I think she’s a shitty person

            Her personal life matters to me none. I care about the journalist that gave his friend coverage with no disclosure. The blog post wasn’t even the ‘impetus’, it was the censorship that resulted afterwards. It’s a prime example of the streisand effect.

          • Ok, you don’t like her.
            How’s that especially relevant?

          • I’m aware of reading comprehension. Precisely what do you think is happening in that screenshot? I’ve heard accusations on what people think is happening (a few people orchestrating gamergate) but the text does not support that assertion, not even slightly.

          • Sorry, I’ll be more direct. You’re feigning ignorance for trolling purposes. And it’s obvious.

          • It’s just a coincidence that gamergate has followed the plans set out in those IRC logs to the letter, of course.

          • You do realize this was being actively discussed in different places all over the internet right? Someone from one place suggests an idea, someone in the chatroom runs it by the people in there. Saying everything originated in an irc chatroom is just ignorance.

          • Correct. It originated on 4chan.

            Continue pretending that the vast reams of evidence for the origins of gamergate don’t count. Just don’t expect the rest of us to coddle your delusions.

          • You still haven’t explained to me how that screenshot in any way insinuates that irc was where the ideas originated? It looks like they’re reacting to information they receive on twitter.

          • Go read the logs. There’s no requirement that one single screenshot prove everything. Frankly, I didn’t even read the SS; this is old, old news.

          • I have. Several times. That’s why when people keep saying they are evidence of a conspiracy I just assume they haven’t read them or aren’t aware the people in that room are also receiving ideas etc from other places like reddit and twitter. There’s still a chatroom to this day that’s the same way. What precisely is in there that makes you feel that it’s a conspiracy?

          • What is it that makes me think the things people were doing in plain sight were actually done? Golly gee, I guess I can’t answer that one.

          • ask for an example, get sarcasm. It’s okay to just admit you’re talking out of your ass.

          • It’s where it started. The logs also contain RogueStar talking about hacking Zoe Quinn’s email or exploiting password recovery, to attempt to dig up more dirt and harass her further.

            He’s gone on to become a prominent figure head of GG on twitter, despite this.

          • He was also called out for being an idiot

            He’s not a prominent voice in gamergate, hardly anyone cares about him. He has no more clout than anyone else involved.

          • Uhm. Maybe you should tell that to the GG’ers funding his game. Maybe you should tell that to the GG’ers on my twitter feed who’re trying to reinstate him from being banned, or wearing his logo as a sign of support.
            (Often used, incidentally, alongside the GG logo. And yes, you have one. It’s some ridiculous green and purple keyhole thing)

          • His kickstarter ended before gamergate began, he keeps getting banned for mass spam reporting so yes that’s BS, his ‘logo’ is a red star eyepatch which I don’t have. You’re pretty bad at this…

          • /facepalm

            I don’t remember saying you did.
            I said maybe you should tell that to the GG’ers who do.

          • Yes, clearly. My habit of thinking of women as people and not bizarre, inscrutable feeemales is something my therapist tells me I should work on more.

        • The hashtag was formed for the purpose of pushing the “ethics” narrative which itself was based on accusations about non existent favorable reviews of a free game in exchange for sex, and those allegations were based on the ranty claims of an obviously embittered X looking to make suckers like you into his personal army. You’re just his pawn, his henchman, his stooge, his cat’s paw if you will. The only question is whether you’re unwitting or not.

          So tell us Jon Snow, do you know nothing, or are you well aware who you’re soldiering for?

          • The fact you think the ethics issue is a ‘narrative’ makes you look like a conspiracy theorist.

            Their was no accusation of exchanging a review for sex, or even using sex for anything. The accusation was that a journalist gave coverage of someone he was friends with, without a disclosure. This is absolutely true. I’m no ones stooge, you are however.

          • Oh no! Greyson didn’t disclose his exact relationship with each of the dozens of developers mentioned in his game jam article! Because that is totally a thing required by ethics! That’s why, when you see an NYT byline, it’s followed by 8000 words of the journalists’ biography, including every acquaintance and fling the reporter has ever had, plus a look into the crystal ball to disclose every human relationship he ever will have.

          • And that’s why the Washington Post’s political reporting is 75% disclosure as their reporters exhaustively list off every interaction they’ve ever had with anyone in Washngton, D.C. before every article.

            Right? That’s how it happens, right? I mean, surely gamergate isn’t demanding anything the rest of the journalism industry doesn’t already do. Right?

          • Disclosing interactions isn’t required. If you have a personal or financial relationship with the target of something you write about, disclose it or recuse yourself. There’s a reason even kotaku implemented rules forbidding patreon donations from their bloggers to developers.

          • Except gamergate defines personal relationships as anyone who ever talked to another person, judging by the weaksauce examples you lot always throw up.

          • Care to give an example of this? I can give you five right not.

            grayson and quinn, friendly enough to take a road trip to vegas
            hernandez and anna anthropy, lived together
            Kuchera donating to quinn on patreon
            wilde and lewis, in a relationship
            hernandez and quinn, lived together

            Not everything requires a disclosure, but stuff like this? absolutely.

          • These are your examples of the horrifying corruption in video gaming that requires an endless scorched-earth campaign? Seriously? This penny-ante bullshit?

          • It’s hard to take you seriously when you keep resorting to hyperbole. It’s an example of unethical behavior perpetrated by an industry more concerned with giving exposure to their friends over someone possibly more deserving. It kills trust and the sites integrity when things like that happen.

            The scorched earth campaign came when instead of owning up to the issues they decided to start a smear campaign against us.

          • Kind of funny you linking to that. Coincidently, a lot of the ‘Game Journo Pro’ leaked mailing list discussion is on the topic of whether to report on the Quinnspiracy.

            Yet on the list you link, it clearly states:

            “– Balance the public’s need for information against potential harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance or undue intrusiveness.”

            “– Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity, even if others do.”

            According to these two points, reporting on Eron Gjoni’s blog-based accusations about his ex-girlfriend, while she is currently being harassed by the channers he’s directed to said blog (who’ve mobilised to swap tips on how best to proceed in harassing her) would be pretty unethical.

            …Whereas somewhere like Brietbart EXISTS as click-bait to pander to lurid curiosity and exacerbate hatred further.

            Additionally, I’d point out re: disclosure, youtubers (who GG seem to prefer than journos…) are widely not prominently labelling sponsored content, and aren’t under obligation to:

            “– Distinguish news from advertising and shun hybrids that blur the lines between the two. Prominently label sponsored content.”


            Further, I’d point out ‘real or perceived’ depends on how reasonable the people perceiving you are. You can not reasonably account for the perceptions of crackpots, for example.

            Jenn Frank had originally disclosed that she had donated to someone’s Patreon and met someone, knowing full well that certain people in the gaming community would have histrionics and warp that into something it wasn’t.

            The Guardian – a national newspaper with professional journalists – removed her disclosure as it’s far beyond what would usually be required and the legal team decided it would set a bad precedent.

          • That certainly didn’t stop those same websites from smearing Brad Wardell.

            Youtubers aren’t journalists. I believe they should always disclose but that’s outside of the purview of what gamergate is railing against.

          • …I’m unsure why (despite being entirely different scenarios) you think two wrongs would possibly make a right.

            Additionally, after that, Wardell said “Hopefully, when people read something ugly about someone in the Internet they’ll be a bit more likely to reserve judgment.”

            You can apply that to the blog written by Zoe Quinn’s ex boyfriend that kicked this whole thing off.

        • The hashtag wasn’t formed “so your collective voices could be heard”, you liar. It was formed specifically to harass and slander a woman. Do we really have to go through the sequence of events AGAIN?

          • Well let’s see. This all started as the #BurgersAndFries and #Quinnspiracy shit, but after a while people did indeed start to complain about ethics, specifically Quinn supposedly sleeping with people for reviews, even though she didn’t. Then Adam Baldwin decided that this was the new step in the “culture war” and decided to create a new hashtag, #GamerGate. Then people systematically denied that the movement had anything to do with the harassment of the various people who it had harassed, despite the fact that you can’t go five steps without finding someone whining about literally who and how they are secretly running the liberal Illuminati. (Note: I really wish we were the Illuminati, that would be cool. Our symbol could be the eye pyramid thing as one of the faces of a d20.)

          • Actually this all started with a false DMCA against mudanematt and reddit nuking a post where totalbiscuit discussed the harm in issuing them. In that same thread people were discussing the fact that grayson never reviewed her game, but did give her positive coverage. I was there.

            Totilo’s response saying they weren’t sleeping together was a way to claim there was no impropriety while avoiding the actual argument being made.

            I didn’t participate in the quinnspiracy or burgersandfries, I came for the journalistic issues that gamergate is addressing. And yes we denied the harassment because the individual idiots that decided to behave in that way are in no way representative of the hundreds of thousands that actually make up gamergate. You’d only use such accusations if you’re trying to shut people up.

            There’s no illuminati, there’s just a group of hipster friends circle jerking that gaming journalism is fine and it’s all secretly an effort to ‘chase the evul womenz from gaming’ as if that ever held any water. I do agree there is some bad blood between gamergate supporters and quinn/wu/sarkeesian, but that’s to be expected when we’ve been slandered by said individuals this entire time.

          • Then where was GG during the Shadows of Mordor contract agreement fiasco? During the AC Unity review embargo? When Escapist gave a shoutout to the tabletop company Autarch, without disclosing that it’s owned by Macris? While we’re on Macris – didn’t he financially back a developer who was interviewed for a pro-GG interview and not let that be known? What about when a dev wielded the DMCA as a weapon to silence a critique from Jim Sterling?

            If I remember rightly, the majority of the GG movement wasn’t too bothered with these actual breaches of ethics, because they were busy attacking charities, endorsing proxy doxxing of vocal opponents, doxxing Felicia Day for merely admitting to not liking to speak on the movement for fear of their tactics (at this time, Kluwe had called out much worse and was not attacked), and the movement decides to sue Patreon for the suspension of their account due to egregious breaches of the ToS, because that is somehow discriminatory to the disabled.
            And then they fraudulently report FoldableHuman to the authorities for disseminating child pornography as retaliation on his piece about 8Chan….
            This is all during the timeframe of those legitimate ethics concerns noted above, incidentally, and is in no way an exhaustive list of the documented actions of the movement as a whole.

            The entire movement has not made a single wilful move to improve ethics in journalism. It has, as a whole, spent more time attacking women and detractors than anything else.
            It’s for this reason that, regardless of how much you protest that you are in favour of ethics in gaming journalism, people will deride your choice of movements to hitch your wagon to.

          • Assassins creed unity

            shadows of mordor


            Macris interview

            Sterling hit by DMCA

            I think your memory is faulty. Anything else you feel we should have addressed?

            False reporting someone for CP? I reported someone admitting to downloading it and made sure to put in the report where it was gotten from. I’d do the same to anyone admitting they had anything of the sort.

            Doxing of felicia day, just about everyone in gamergate condemned the act. As there have been numerous third party trolls using gamergate as their playground (such as GNAA, Bill waggoner crew, Lizard squad, weird twitter) it’s impossible to know precisely who committed the act. As for celebrating proxy doxing? I assume you’re referring to baphoment. It’s not my duty to save people from their own stupidity. They chose to attack 8chan, I had no hand in that.

            As for doing nothing to improve journalism. Really? I have a list here that says differently.

            Keep deriding away. Your opinion doesn’t hinder me from accomplishing what I set out to do. Your bleating is just entertainment.

          • Wow, internal talks on their reddit sub. Where was the high profile campaign? Where was the kind of pressure they used so to remove ad revenue from Polygon?

            Why was Kotaku quicker on the mark on condemning the SoM issues than the super ethical brigade of GG? Why did they not really put anything out there until Salon and Forbes asked why they were so quiet for a change? Come on – when your movement is slower than Salon on a major ethics issue, there has to be something there. Of course, it was missing the one thing that consistently galvanises GG into action. A prominent female figure!

            As for the GG owned wiki reference? Why not pull a piece from Reaxxion while you’re at it? Try to find something not written by Gators for Gators, or just GTFO.

            The truth of the matter is, pro-GG outlets are dwindling. Pro-diversity outlets are gaining in number. Every single major developer and publisher, pretty much every sane website has declined to be with GamerGate. Meanwhile, KiA ismostly claiming false victories and egging on TotalBiscuit’s meltdown and completely uncalled-for attacking of Leigh Alexander.

            And spare the No True Scotsman bull when it comes to repeated doxxing and swatting attempts. That was on GG and the types of people the movement has attracted to the banner. Own it, or move somewhere where your concern has more than a snowballs chance in hell of outweighing the damage done.

            There is no moral highground to be gained from attaching yourself to Gamergate. In the end, they’re nothing more than the gaming arm of r/Redpill. Everything they have actually done has been in order to attack anybody they see as a “SJW” or advocates any kind of equality or feminist stance in the industry. That is their legacy, and thankfully, it’s a dying movement.

          • If you’re going to attempt to revise history, it’s best to do it to someone who doesn’t know any better. Kotaku covered it Oct 8th. Salon covered it october 28th. Techraptor addressed it September 29th as seen here

            As for why there wasn’t a bigger campaign for it? Because the issue was addressed and resolved. Not everyone hides their criticism behind a rallying cry of sexism.

            Claiming the number of pro-diversity outlets is somehow in opposition to gamergate is something. Where does gamergate claim to be anti diversity? I’ve seen that claim used against us, but never actually seen any argument AGAINST diversity from gamergate. The closest it comes is that developers should have the creative freedom to create their ideal game without backlash from people for not including something they personally would have preferred to see. Diversity is great as it allows me to see situations from a different perspective, if done badly it just looks like pandering.

            I didn’t invoke the no true scotsman fallacy there so you claiming I did just seems out of place. I made the factual statement that we can’t be certain who was responsible for the doxing of felicia day.

            I already linked you our accomplishments, you choosing not to accept it is your prerogative. I’m not out to convince you of anything. The only advocates of equality I take issue with are those who refuse to practice what they preach. Hence the entire reason they are referred to as SJW’s. As for it being a dying movement, last night we hit 29k subscribers and climbing on KiA. We’re not going anywhere.

          • Given how many sockpuppets there were just for the astroturf of NotYourShield, the follower numbers alone are no real way to determine things. Given it was a push to reach 3000 supporters for the much-pushed thunderclap campaign, and collating the active accounts through Twitter and other places, the actual upper limit for Gators is about 10k.

            While you keep repeating the PRATT of “ehics in journalism!”, I’ll keep on the drinking game revolving around whether Kia can go more than 5 minutes without dragging Brianna Wu, who is not a journalist, and thus far has done nothing provably against the alleged goal of the group, back into the discussion.

            The only accomplishments of GamerGate have been completely accidental, and never their intention. The new anti-harassment measures at Twitter, the scrutiny of how much gaming sites rely on, and are influenced by, the sponsorship and advertisements from other companies. These things arose because of attack campaigns. And those attacks thus far have pretty much only been at anti-GG proponents and the imagined bogeyman of the “SJW” – who is not here to take away your games, has never been about accusing every gamer of misogyny, and is about the most ridiculous epithet I’ve heard on the internet in the last 20 years.

            Those things are a side-effect of their main focus – harassment and the character assassination of their more vocal detractors. Which is pretty ironic, given their biggest targets are places that have been addressing the issues of ethics in the gaming press and industry from the start. Guess which publication was the first to report on Jeff Gerstmann’s firing from Gamespot? And was the only one to actually follow up after the initial excitement died down?
            Guess which group is still posting anti-Semitic caricatures of Sarkeesian, who thus far has only outlined reasons why more diversity is good in games – and without once saying we need to stop making the games we make currently?
            When will there be a mass campaign to apologise to Verendeer Jubbal, and others, for forcing them off Twitter through constant harassment under the name of Gamer Gate?

            I don’t doubt that you may be sincere in your belief that this is a thing worth fighting for. But even the most cursory of glances at the reports outside of the Kia echo chamber of wilful ignorance of context and false victory claims shows that ethics has never been the main goal of the movement. The goal has always been a conservative reactionary knee-jerk against a cultural movement that threatens the old status quo. Which probably explains why the only public support it gets is from far-right figures and outlets.

            I’ll judge the movement by the company it keeps. Roosh V, Breitbart, Hotwheels, etc.
            And I’ll judge the movement by how much harm vs good they’ve done, which is far too much to be able to fit into one post.
            I’m not judging you, but I do lament that there was no more constructive way for you to participate and improve gaming culture.

          • I dare you to go post on #NotYourShield and tell them they are sock puppets. The logs supposedly ‘proving’ that to be the case imply nothing of the sort. For people who claim to care about marginalized voices, you sure don’t take any issue with doing it yourselves.

            Also judging numbers by a thunderclap? Not everyone involved in gamergate actually use twitter, and even then not all that use twitter participated in the thunderclap. I know I didn’t as I didn’t really see the point.

            About Wu, she set herself up as an adversary. Don’t pretend like we ‘dragged her into this’

            You want to speak of ridiculous? How about that thousands of people pretend to care about ethics in journalism while secretly trying to chase women and minorities from gaming, as if there’s any reason for wanting something like that to occur. As a gamer, why would someone want less people gaming? The assertion is almost too hilarious to believe it’s being spouted as fact. I’ve been gaming with all races and genders since the mid 90s. What someone is irl has no bearing whatsoever when we play together. Saying it’s some boys club does a huge disservice to the decades of gaming diversity.

            That was what upset me about those ‘gamers are dead’ articles. Not because I felt it was an attack on the gamer identity, but because journalists were willfully ignoring the existing diversity we had in gaming. Using an outdated stereotype to reinforce their rhetoric. Straight white males don’t have to be your audience? You don’t say? That’s why this entire situation is a joke.

            Exposing corruption is great if it remained consistent. Were you aware that 40k people lost their person information when an EA forum was hacked? Were you aware that a whistleblower went to the press with that information and they refused to publish the information?

            As for Jubbal, you mean the person who called totalbiscuit racist? The very same person that said you can’t be racist to white people or sexist towards men? Why would I apologize to someone willfully being ignorant and imposing a double standard so others can be racist and sexist without appearing to be bigots because they use their own definitions of the words.

            No one if ‘forced’ off of twitter. There are tools in place to deal with people you don’t want to deal with.

            You mention us wanting to maintain the status quo and opposing some sort of cultural shift. Precisely how would ‘harassing and threatening’ people accomplish that if it was our desire? If terrifying and threatening people was what were were actually about, you would be seeing a lot more threats and doxes etc then there actually are. You claiming the miorities that engage in such behavior is the equivalent of saying TERF’s represent feminism as a whole. That’s an extremely dishonest way of thinking.

            Most of us in KiA dislike Roosh, I disagree with Milo’s views of trans people, and hotwheels is sympathetic to gamergate, but not a supporter of it. ‘Gaming culture’ wasn’t in a place that needed improving. Not everyone is obsessed with how people who don’t know any better perceive them. Before this and even now I’m proud to be a gamer. Despite your view on gamergate, and everything that’s gone on in the last 7 months I still play with all genders and races daily and I wouldn’t have it any other way. On the internet, everyone is equal. It’s those that say differently that make me wary.

    • What makes you think that Gamergate is these people’s audience? Polygon and Gamasutra, and Cara Ellison apparently, have been very open about the fact that they don’t want Gamergate as an audience. Why do you keep demanding that people pander too you when they have made it clear they aren’t interested in you or your clicks?

      • Gamers are these people’s audience (if they want to or not), and they will find out soon enough that catering to a echo chamber subgroup won’t pay in the long run. I already stopped reading sites like RPS and cancelled my subscription to magazines like PCGamer when they went full retard.

        Here’s a simple analysis to which is the larger and more profitable audience:

          • Yeah, jesus christ, can you imagine what games journalism would look like if it started catering to gamergate? Well, probably a lot like the escapist. All most all of the talent would have fled in protest, or been fired for speaking out, leaving nothing but a few ultraconservatives hired on the cheap to fill up space until it goes under from severe financial strain.

            Why doesn’t Kotaku want all that sweet sweet success The Escapist is raking in?

          • I already gave you an example of an alternative, and in fact the escapist is actually on there, for however long it continues to exist. Pretty much all of those places are tiny, amateur operations that have audiences about a fraction of the size of Polygon’s. Although I notice that you didn’t include Reaxxion or Breitbart. Curious, as we know those are favorites of your’s.

            Also, good job including Tech Raptor, which hosted doxx on Zoe Quinn’s family for months before running this lovely example of unethical and extremely shoddy and amateurish reporting:


            Oh hey, look its Kotaku and actual good reporting on Gaming issues, the two things Gamergate hates most. Well, not including women who just won’t shut up and go away cause men are talking now.

            I do however, encourage you to stick to Reaxxion and Breitbart and Techraptor and Totalbiscuit’s youtube channel where you are actually wanted and please leave the rest of us alone.

          • I’d say they are all niche (TechRaptor, seriously?), but it’s good GGers have something to read. Comparison to Ghazi is super obtuse, though – it’s a subreddit for mocking gators. There’s no movement behind it.

          • Hey, GREAT! There are a lot of websites & youtubers that pander to you. Some of them are even enjoyed by a dirty “SJW” like me!

            So… why don’t you leave those *other* websites&youtubers alone, considering that they obviously don’t write for *you*? I mean, you’re all for diversity of opinion, right?

          • Well I’m not visiting them, but as long as they keep posting outright blatant lies and keep slandering large parts of their audience I really don’t want to leave them alone on that basis and regardless some of these places like Rock Paper Shotgun, PC Gamer or The Escapist were actually pretty great when they were still talking about games, considering The Escapist is trying to get back to that I’d consider it a success, so:

          • Oh, so now they’re “posting outright, blatant lies”?
            Sure thing, little buddy. Please, link me some of these “lies” RPS has posted. I’ll be waiting.

          • Polygon lied that Bayonetta 2 was worth 7.5 points when it was objectively worth at least 8.763452.

          • Yes, good! Go there and leave the rest of us alone already!

            When will you gaters get it? You’re not wanted.

        • Actually no. Gamasutra’s audience is developers.

          Polygon and Kotaku both made record profits last year (despite gamergate’s attempts to sabotage them). And gamergate is a tiny, tiny minority of gamers.

          Even at the most generous of estimates placing gamergate at 30,000 strong (based on twitter and reddit usage it seems to be closer to 5,000 and a lot of sock puppets) gamergate does not make up more than 1% of call of duty’s player base.

          Most gamers, you will find, are not shrill man-baby’s who throw a tantrum at even the mildest of criticism and feel that they must know the intimate details of the sex life of every woman in gaming. Most gamers are ordinary people like anyone you would meet on the street. They don’t care about 4chan or internet “free speech” or the Men’s Rights Movement. Those bugaboos are unique to gamergate’s special little horde of angry commentators.

          So gamergate does not represent gamers (defined here as anyone who plays games, no matter who they are and what the game is). They represent a tiny minority of anti-feminist internet dweller, and nobody wants or needs them as an audience.

        • “Gamers are these people’s audience”

          Gamers are dead, little buddy. Deader than dead.
          And the shock? It’s all in your head.

    • …it is a healthy way to look at it if she’s right. (Which she is).
      The consumers for the largest entertainment industry in the world contains a lot of wankers.
      Who’re a vocal minority of entitled ‘games are only for me’ gamerdouchebros, but under the bracket of ‘largest entertainment industry in the world’ that still ends up being a fair amount of people.

  3. poor Scott. He has not written a blog in 2 years because of gamergate. But now thanks to gamergate he wrote one? It seems that butthurt from the narrative falling down is hurting him real bad.

  4. I can only thank people like you. When someone like Kern makes a plea for peace and is attacked, defamed and mocked I can only say thanks. You show the world how nasty your kind treats anyone who doesnt follow the exact narrative. When people come into this neutral and leave knowing that the only people who treated them like crap were the people supposedly fighting against misogynistic harrasers it really shows your true colors. So thanks for the help chief.

      • Do you use the same twitter website or is there a separate one I don’t know about? Or is it only those things when it’s a woman talking about video games? He experienced the exact same thing anyone else who upset anti-gg did. If you don’t think its any of those things that’s fine just don’t call it that for any of the people you support.

  5. Scott, with all due respect, I can find countless examples of such irrational behavior on both sides of this argument. There are investigations being conducted against some key anti-GG folks who arranged for critics to be swatted (via social media, no less). Alas, all the teenage bile has drowned out the core issue – that gaming journalism is woefully compromised, and that some of the key anti-GG folks are part of that problem. Sadder yet, compromised journalism goes beyond gaming, but instead of setting an example by rooting out the corruption, punishing those who would trade reviews for cash, ad space or sex, we see this frackfest. So now our gaming reviews are still compromised, and everyone has basically blocked everyone else on Twitter. And every new Greenlight candidate will get sabotaged by one or the other side, regardless of quality. and this piece has added to the problem, instead of helping to bring the conversation back to the core issue.

    • Problem is, people who side with MRAs, neonazis and 8chan’s doxxers for 6 months straight have no moral ground to push for reform in gaming journalism, so all those vague “there are investigation vs anti-GG” arguments are vague (with that said, I hope people who participate in those harassment activities, no matter what their motive is, will stop doing that).

      • So, to clarify: if you demand reform in Egypt, you are automatically grouped with the Muslim Brotherhood, and are therefore a terrorist and should be imprisoned. This is what the current Egyptian dictatorship does – which tells you everything you need to know about the anti-GG crowd’s political predilections.

        • If you demand reform in Egypt, and add #muslimbrotherhood to your message, yes you are automatically grouped with the Brotherhood and all the shit they do. Similarly, if you demand journalistic reform, and add #gamergate to your message, you get grouped with the folks sending death threats, calling for speech to be chilled under a thin veil of poorly-defined ‘ethics’, and continuing the propagation of false narratives and weird puritanism.

          • “you get grouped with the folks sending death threats, calling for speech to be chilled”

            Oh, comrade, you don’t even bother to separate the contradiction with a period or a line break. Incredible. You don’t get that, by grouping people with legitimate arguments with those abusing the medium, you are the one “chilling speech”? How can you not get this?

          • You can speak all you want about whatever you want. I didn’t pick the group you choose to associate with. I didn’t create the association of gamergate with harassment and misogyny. But you can’t deny the association exists unless you don some massive thick blinders. The group and notion “gamergate” has been tarred by trolls and misogynists. If you want results you need a new group and actual complaints about real ethical problems.

            To this day, in this very thread, I can’t avoid rhetoric proven false months ago still coming from people claiming to be part of gamergate. Even from you: “punishing those who would trade reviews for… sex” IT DIDN’T HAPPEN. This ‘sex for reviews’ narrative is an entirely fabricated weird puritanical farce.

            I agree that there exist “countless examples of such irrational behavior on both sides of this argument.” I disagree that “gaming journalism is woefully compromised”. Gaming journalism today is a shining beacon on the hill compared to gaming journalism of 15 or 20 years ago. Yes, paid reviews are bad news and bad ethics; yes, ad revenue conflicts with editorial objectivity. Those are ethical issues. Journalists hanging out with developers is not an ethical problem, it’s how journalism is accomplished. Journalists discussing political issues, cultural memes, and personal beliefs in a review is not an ethical problem, it is entirely appropriate for the medium of criticism. I find that most gamergaters would benefit greatly from a refresher course on what ethics, media review, and criticism actually mean.

          • I don’t associate with any “group”. Please don’t fit people into stereotypes. It’s neo-Stalinism, and it is being practiced across the political and cultural spectrum.

            “gamergate presents a narrative where this is happening all the damn time” – um, no they don’t, they present one specific example, and in that example, the improper relationship was admitted to by all parties, so it is not “rumor”. There is no “sex for reviews” narrative, there is the reality of cozy relationships between media and publishers/developers that goes well beyond “hanging out”, into the realm of cash changing hands, also admitted to by the websites where this happened. The currency used is irrelevant. I really wish we could all move on from that specific example, it gives ammunition to trolls on both sides, and dilutes efforts to hold parties in much more substantial and consequential breaches of ethics accountable.

            This conversation needs a moderated environment where people familiar with the topics on both sides can communicate without all the noise, rumors and misinformation, where moderators can impose civility and procedure. otherwise, everyone just ends up blocking everyone else, which goes nowhere.

          • “I don’t associate with any ‘group'”

            Then why do you react so strongly when I call out the group GamerGate on the tiresome offensive shit that comes labelled #gamergate?

            “the improper relationship was admitted to by all parties,”

            The relationship was admitted to by all parties, but I have not seen any good evidence that it was improper. I’ve seen lots of bad, disproven evidence. I’ve seen nothing that shows a timeline where “intimate relationship began” comes before “review was written”. I’ve seen nothing that shows why anyone should care that a free game got (a tiny bit of) free press.

            “into the realm of cash changing hands, also admitted to by the websites where this happened”

            Citation please? This is definitely an ethical issue.

            Note that Gerstmann, Hsu, Keighley, and Redner predate #gamergate and as far as I know have been addressed without any grassroots movement required. Shadows of Mordor hit post-GG but was almost entirely ignored by #gamergate in favor of rants about feminists and SJWs. Anytime #gamergate comes close to an ethical issue, the focus is on devs not journalists, females not males, indies not big budget publishers.

            I’m not trying to fix labels on individuals; individuals are choosing this label for themselves. I’m arguing that the preponderance of evidence indicates that #gamergate is mostly comprised of assholes who aren’t actually interested in journalistic ethics. I’m suggesting that if you are actually interested in journalistic ethics, tagging your arguments #gamergate is counterproductive.

            “This conversation needs a moderated environment”

            I totally agree. Several attempts have been made to this end, but they have all ended up one-sided echo chambers or divisive bickering.

          • I have never used the tag Gamergate myself, I do not consider myself a part of any group here, just a guy trying to form an opinion and evolve that opinion based on evidence as I get it. In fact, this is the first time I’ve every had a conversation on this topic with anybody. I believe I react strongly because this debate has become highly dogmatic, and I react very poorly to dogma – not bundling you into that, btw, just the general tone has been poisonous and destructive. Compare your responses to some of the other responses I’ve gotten on these posts, and you’ll see how even the most level-headed person can end up losing their cool. (“sockpuppet” was my favorite)

            For the cash changing hands incident, look up Kotaku and how they had to amend their policies so their writers were barred from donating to developer fundraisers, after they were found to have donated to developers whose products they went on to review. It implies a relationship far too cozy to maintain perceived impartiality.

            Everything else you mention – that’s the problem with a hashtag, anyone can use it, properly or not, so even coming up with a new one won’t fix this, as the same groups poisoning the debate would just migrate there in short order.

            I’m not really sure why anyone is surprised by the fact that gaming contains a contingent of jerks. Every social group has them, some more so than others. I remember the General channel in WoW way back in 2006 was a sewer of homophobia, misogyny and general jerkiness. Guess what? Your average bar isn’t that different – those people just keep it down to a whisper, because they are not protected by anonymity.

            Rule of thumb: every social group has a few loud people, and they are so loud, you will inevitably assume the majority of the group is like those few miscreants. I see this over and over, online and offline. So the Kerns and the Quinns behave like imbeciles or jerks, but their tweets are so numerous and pervasive, it starts to seem like they are the whole debate. Or a few mentally disturbed jerks say horrible and possibly illegal things using a hashtag, and now anyone holding that opinion is complicit in their crime.

  6. Good summary and explanation of this bizarre sense of entitlement such that any one person must subject themselves voluntarily to being harangued on the Internet lest they be thought censorious.

  7. I am on his side, it is the game journalists fault, they painted all gamers as terrorist and monsters, and then the writers of law and order see this kind of crap and try to paint gamers as monsters. mr kern is in the right.

    • Nope. Don’t pretend they were talking about all gamers and not about this small but loud fraction of abusers. If you aren’t with those abusers, you don’t have to take it to heart.

      • No I was not one of those people, as matter of fact I am one of those who was angered that such people did a thing like that, but law and order made gamers out to be ridiculous monstrous freaks, journalist did in fact say shit about gamers that made gamers look bad, if I am correct there were people who said gamers should not be called gamers anymore as if the majority of gamers were harassing people. Journalists fueled the flame that was caused by gamergate which was further fueled by law and order.

        • Who cares about Law & Order? I’ve been gaming for two dozen years at least, and I don’t really give a damn about that or whether I should call myself a gamer or not. So maybe just, you know, play the games instead of thinking about some flames being fueled.

          • Yes but when a hobby, one I have dedicated years of my life to, one that has lifted me up when I was sad or depressed, one that have made me happy when I was angry at the world is being treated like this do you really think I’m just gonna sit around and be happy about it? kern is a fellow gamer and one who has done nothing wrong and people are treating him like shit and acting like he did something seriously wrong.

          • Everyone is a “fellow gamer” then. The majority of people called “anti-GG” are, surprise surprise, gamers. Except, as I’ve said, if you are not an abusers, then media’s not after you – if you read closely, nobody says “all gamers”.

            And Kern it behaving somewhat immature – apparently he’s being angry at the world after things went wrong with Firefall, although in part it was due to his own management style and weird financial decisions (like spending $ 3 million on a promotional bus when the game was still in alpha):

          • You won’t win arguing with this tool. You are not allowed to have agency, you may not have individual thought or feelings. You agree with the hive mind or you are wrong and must be corrected. You can’t be against gamergate and still agree with Kern. You can’t not really care about Kern but still think he has a good point. You are not allowed to think gamergate is misrepresented in the media and you are not allowed to be offended by the gamers are dead articles. Something anti-gg will never understand is they are their own worse enemy. I didn’t give a care about gamergate until I got abused by its opposition for daring to seek the truth and ask questions on my own accord and not just “listening and believing”.

          • If you have received harassment or threats for expressing these views, that’s fucked up, and just further proof that gaming culture is screwed up and needs to change.

            Otherwise, you are allowed to do all of those things. You’re expressing those opinions here, right now, and receiving nothing but disagreement.

  8. I’m a gamer who happens to also have a vagina. Sooooo am I allowed to like gaming or not? Because at this point, I’m too scared to find out…

  9. This reminds me of the huge divide between Hollywood/TV and over half of the American population, all the major news media outlets having been purged of most conservative viewpoints via discriminatory entryist tactics by Progressive Leftists.

    Rupert Murdoch saw a huge underserved market, and Fox News was born. The most successful cable new network by far for over a decade and running.

    It’s a shame that Progs purge other viewpoints out of publications like this. Then they sneer when people get uppity about it. Embrace Diversity, but not Western Conservatives…purge them and wage cultural genocide on them in their institutions. Every other culture is to be respected and celebrated.

    But, #GamerGate is these ebil Conservative Reactionaries fault, a bunch of low sloping forheads dancing about as the late David Carr put it so “eloquently.”

    Oh, well, a new Fox News of Games Media is here, it’s called the Escapist. And instead of praising diversity, there is nothing but glum denouncements and calls for ostracization from polite gaming society.

    It really is a shame what Progs are doing with their Extremist Identity Politics and Genocidal Cultural War. But to sneer at people when they move to defend themselves from your denunciations, moral sneering, and social engineering whilst you speak with a forked tongue about Diversity. Well, that’s a bit much dont you think?

    Well, there is open resistance to Progressive cultural imperialism & authoritarian demands to censor in Vidya now. Enjoy!


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