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Quick Comments

1) Hi, Reddit! It’s me, Scott. I’ve been doing this blogging thing a while now, as you can see from my mostly extant if broken archives. I’d fix them but, you see, I’m pretty lazy.

2) I keep fairly busy in my day job. In fact we are doing a major patch today – if the gentle call of sea lion barks becomes too distracting, I’ll turn off comments temporarily. You see,

3) I am under zero obligation to host your comments, abuse, witty repartee, accusations, threats or whatever. I paid for this microphone. You are free to pay for your own! Isn’t the Internet great? Now get out of my yard, I’m old.

  • dartwick

    To be fair a huge number of gamers, who wish no harm or terror on any feminist nor any gaming journalist, totally enjoy games where the women are hot with big boobs and the males are tough guys who spend their time violently killing bad guys.

    These, mostly male players do find much of the game media to be giving biased coverage that is contrary to their interests.
    So even blogs like this are a bit annoying when the issue is framed around the actions of an ugly, threating minority of the player base.

    • Incogneato

      In other words, people being hunted like animals by this ugly, threatening minority need to shut up and suffer in silence, so as not to disturb your beautiful mind with such things.

      No.

      • DimitriosGazis

        No, they should report such activity to the authorities, as well as the owners of the relevant forum – Twitter, Facebook, etc.

        They should not, however, paint every single person who believes the GG thesis is valid as basement dwelling teenagers, sexists, mentally ill, etc.

        Just because Charlie Manson and I share the same favorite color does now make both of us serial killers.

        • Carrie

          So, you are a serial killer then?

          Because Charles Manson is not one. He’s a mass murderer.

          • DimitriosGazis

            … or you could debate the topic at hand.

          • Carrie

            A simple “yes” would have sufficed, since you’re the one who brought up both serial killers and the thoroughly unrelated Charles Manson.

          • DimitriosGazis

            Wow. So I’m a serial killer because I mentioned one? How broken are you people?

          • Carrie

            Oh, you acknowledge that you mentioned a serial killer? Because in addition to that, you also mentioned [non-serial killer] Charles Manson — and then stated that the two of you differed on that one point.

            Look, the only worthwhile point made in these comments has already been made by Incogneato. Was I trolling your trollish and unrelated comment about you and Manson? If you want, sure. I support Scott Jennings on this thread, even if your mind more goes toward mass murderers.

        • Incogneato

          Yeah, no. Gamergate is more like a bunch of people running around talking about the coming race war and spraypainting “helter skelter” of every available wall, and then whining that anyone would associate them with Charlie Manson.

          • DimitriosGazis

            Both sides of this conversation could be described this way. Funny thing is, I originally read about GG because I saw it as important to the wider issue of corrupt journalism, but its utility has been torched to cinders because the populations of people debating both sides of the issue are dogmatic, juvenile and, for the most part, lack the intellectual rigor and emotional maturity to stick to the debate at hand without meandering down irrelevant tangential pathways or resorting to ad hominem attacks.

            And this conversation is the perfect example of just such a waste of effort. Neither of you has responded to my original statement: why are you coloring a valid argument because some of those making it are abusive? Why are those who are well-behaved, reasonable debaters being grouped together with doxers, swatters, abusers and the like? And why are only those who are termed pro-GG (whatever that means) singled out for such behavior, when there are plenty of examples of SJW types (again, whatever that means) doing exactly the same thing?

            And, since you seem to have classified me against my will and your better judgment as a Gamergate aficionado, here’s an opinion you can attempt to reconcile to your sclerotic dogma: this fellow Kern is the PERFECT EXAMPLE of everything that is wrong with this debate, as delineated in the above paragraph.

          • Incogneato

            Because the abuse is far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more important an issue than your penny-ante so-called-ethics. Especially since gamergate has utterly refused to face up to the simple fact that the real corruption within games journalism comes from the big publishers throwing around threats and bribes, not some broke-ass indies knowing broke ass bloggers.

            Gaming is filled to the brim with people looking for any excuse to unleash mountains of harassment on top of any woman who pokes her head up. Yes, that is a more important issue than the sorry ass scandals that GG thinks are the real issue. And the reason these supposedly “well-behaved debaters” are being lumped in with the abusers is because they’re telling us we need to ignore the abusers in favor of the really important issue of Bayonetta’s goddam review score. I realize you think everyone else is an idiot, but we’re not stupid enough to miss the real agenda here, which is that they think targets of abuse should be left to hang without support.

          • DimitriosGazis

            The fact that so many think that ethics are “penny-ante” is the reason this world is broken. Ethics know no grey area. The problem is that big publisher or broke-ass indie, the ethics are the same. Ethics don’t increase in importance or intensity with the size of the pocketbook or the bribe. Ethical violations are not rendered moot because someone said something inappropriate about the person who violated the code of ethics.

            And, while we may classify these scandals as “sorry ass”, they are not isolated to the gaming industry. Look up Judith Miller, formerly of the New York Times. Her version of journalistic capture helped justify an invasion that has cost countless thousands of deaths and the partial dissolution of the Middle East. Same ethics, different consequences. But if you make an exception with some small indie game developer and their bedfellow at a gaming blog, you have now justified all exceptions.

            Applying ethics selectively is unjust and hypocritical, and in cases outside of gaming, deadly.

            Your error is to assume that this issue is unimportant because another issue closer to your heart is important. I find it fascinating that all those championing your way of thinking are the ones who have benefited financially by changing the conversation from their own corruption to their internet victimization.

            “we’re not stupid enough to miss the real agenda here, which is that they think targets of abuse should be left to hang without support.”

            Nonsense. You are describing 4chan. We can all agree those damaged folks mostly belong in jail, or at least barred from using the internet.

            The question I keep ending with in such conversations has yet to be answered: why are these not two separate conversations, each with its own hashtag, perhaps? I suspect the Quinns and ESPECIALLY the Sarkeesians would never want to see this happen, as they are getting too much publicity – and, in the case of Sarkeesian, large gobs of corporate cash – which would in all likelihood dissipate and be replaced by attention to Quinn’s ethical slip-ups and Sarkeesian’s repeated failure to complete deliverables to her donors.

            And, if you decide to respond, you would be best served to avoid painting me with that broad Gamergate brush you used above. I work for a Wall Street firm which is 95%+ minority including almost all executives, around 2/3rds female, sprinkled with all sorts of alternative lifestyle, other-gender folks across 4 continents – and I’m despised for my penchant to prefer hiring women.

          • Incogneato

            Judy Miller’s ethical problem was publishing lies as truth. That you would conflate that with the question of some small-time dev fucking a small-time reporter is flat-out ridiculous.

            They’re not two separate conversations because the ethics angle was ginned up as a cover for the mass-harassment campaigns. It’s not all that fucking complicated, man. But of course you then blame the targets of this harassment for somehow creating the whole thing, which is utterly fucking disgusting. Yeah, and did you see what those women were wearing etc.

            If you want to talk about ethics, then feel free. If you insist on tying it to gamergate, a movement set up entirely to pretend that they were harassing women because ethics compelled them, then you’ll get the response you deserve. And frankly the fact that you filled your message here with blatent lies about gamergate’s victims tells us all we need to know about where you stand.

            Pretty sure you’re lying about your Wall Street firm too, but whatever. Nobody cares where you work, sockpuppet.

          • DimitriosGazis

            Oh, you’re one of THOSE people. Pity, I thought I was debating with a fellow sentient, not someone insecure enough to resort to ad hominem attacks like “sockpuppet” and the “everything you say is a lie” routine.

            But here’s something even the hopelessly dogmatic will appreciate: the best way to avoid internet bullying, which you so very much abhor, is to remove all anonymity, and force everyone to post with their real name. At least then, when you use a word like “sockpuppet” in a feeble attempt to sound morally superior, there can be real-life consequences, such as all your real-life friends seeing what an intellectual runt you really are. (THAT’S how ad hominem is done, mate)

            Notice that I post with my real name. Unlike you. I wonder why? Not willing to put your dogma where your real mouth is? Fret not, I wouldn’t want to be associated with such drivel if I held your opinions, too.

          • Incogneato

            Sure, I’ll bet that’s your real name. And if you weren’t so busy wanking, you’d have noticed that my real name is very much available to anyone who cares.

            Good luck convincing people that Nathan Greyson failing to disclose his then-nonexistent relationship with Zoe Quinn in the review of her game that he didn’t write is as serious an ethical breach as Judy Miller lying us into a ten year war that killed hundreds of thousands of people and paved the way for ISIS.

          • DimitriosGazis

            It’s the slippery slope. The population that accepts the lesser of those evils will inevitably accept the other. And guess what? They have.

            Here’s a thought: in a perfect world, in the specific case of Zoe Quinn, I don’t think any of the fault would be placed on her. My beef has always been with the so-called journalists. They are the ones with a clear-cut code of ethics. It was their place to set boundaries and post disclaimers when some sort of conflict of interest might exist.

            With such a universal code of ethics, you would have a disclaimer on an article if the writer had a personal relationship with the developer. You would also have a disclaimer if the publisher of a reviewed game was also purchasing advertising from the publication. This covers everyone – big, small, journalist, developer/publisher. The reader does with this information what they will.

            Without a universal construct covering all such interactions great and small, people get to set an imaginary line between what is important enough to require ethics and what is not. And then, human nature being what it is, someone moves that line a bit. Then a bit more. Sooner or later, the line that used to be set near “journalist wrote a review about his roommate’s game” now falls somewhere close to “NYT journalist lies about Iraq WMDs”.

            This is not to say that developers like Quinn are free of fault. I’d classify her behavior as tasteless and unethical, but her behavior does not affect my purchasing decisions, so I really couldn’t care less.

            *****************************************

            And it is my real name – who would make up such an irrelevant name. As for yours, I stand corrected, it only shows up in the url, not the page. Perhaps I was busy wanking, and missed that.

          • “It’s the slippery slope”
            IT’S VIDEO GAME REVIEWS, DUDE.

            If you find out an enthusiast press writer is unethical, you change the fucking channel. It’s that simple. They are paid a pittance for their work. If they fuck up enough to drop page views, I promise, they will be fired.

            Besides, FUCK your “ethics” campaign. There’s been mountains and mountains of evidence that it was fabricated based on a LIE that Eron wrote that he himself even later stated “I might have been off about the timelines”. It’s all based on hatred of Zoe and spiraling out to anyone who ever fucking defended her against your sorry ass excuse for a mob. Go back to the chans, dude. No one wants you around until you grow the fuck up.

          • DimitriosGazis

            I don’t have a “campaign”. I don’t have a “mob”. This is the first time I have every discussed this issue with anyone, online or offline. I have never once been to the 4chan website. Ever. And, I would not be telling anybody to “grow up” when every third word you write is a variation on the term “to fuck”.

            But go right ahead and make assumptions about who I am, what I believe, and all the crimes you imagine I’ve committed. No need for chauvinist pigs like me to spread a stereotype when you are doing such a grand job all by yourself living up to the all the ugly stereotypes other more productive women have spent centuries trying to eradicate.

            All the ad hominem and the potty mouth does nothing to further your point. Perhaps, before asking for others to show you respect, you should learn how to wield it yourself.

            By the way, I think perhaps there was a valid point somewhere in your comment, but it was lost in the all the angsty, belligerent hatred in which it was wrapped.

          • Dude, you are responding on a post that’s about a 7 month and counting campaign of harassment with a false shield about “ethics in games journalism”. It’s a bullshit narrative that was crafted by harassers & narcissists who didn’t like an ‘uppity woman’ who happened to also be another abusive narcissist’s ex. So fucking excuse me if my use of the word *FUCK* is so goddamn offensive to you.

            And if you think me using the word fuck makes me somehow less mature, and you honest to god buy some bullshit thing that poor wee feminists don’t ever swear, hoooo boy do you have some things to learn. Quit fucking tone policing when it comes to legitimate outrage about harassment. Just stop. It makes you look like an entitled asshole.

            Also, stop with false equivalences like the comparison to video game reviews with Judy Miller. It’s dumb, you know it’s dumb, and you only pulled it out of your ass to try and seem like some pseudo-intellectual asshole.

            tldr: I really don’t care if you don’t read this, because you’re an ass and I have no desire to win over the minds of self-absorbed shits on the internet.

          • DimitriosGazis

            “Quite fucking tone policing”
            “entitled asshole”
            “dumb”
            “pulled it out of your ass”
            “pseudo-intellectual asshole”
            “you’re an ass”
            “self-absorbed shits”

            For someone who is so “enraged” by bullying, you seem to have mastered the art form, my dear.